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I just got a part time job teaching college algebra at a school that mostly teaches nursing and massage therapy. The pay is ok. The reason I got the job is th

by drblast 16y ago

I just got a part time job teaching college algebra at a school that mostly teaches nursing and massage therapy. The pay is ok. The reason I got the job is that the state and regional accreditation boards require that anyone teaching college level courses must have a Masters degree and at least 18 graduate credit hours in the subject. The previous teacher they had to let go has a bachelor's in math. I've got an M.S. in EE. I sat in on his classes my first few days on the job; he's an excellent teacher. So what ended up happening is this school, which can't afford to pay much, now can't find anyone with an M.S. who's willing to teach algebra full-time. (surprise, surprise) While the board has the intention to raise the standard for algebra teachers, the rules have the opposite effect since they limit so strictly who can teach that the schools have to hire anyone who meets the criteria whether they're good or not. It's not so much the pay but the unbelievable amount of hoops you have to jump through to teach. I'm sure a lot of smart people would love to teach part-time if it didn't take years to get certified.

dp1234 16y ago
That is one thing I never understood. There are less requirements to teach at the college level than to teach high school. Most people don't realize that most college teachers have never actually had any education courses, they just happen to have attained advanced degrees.
- maxharris 16y ago
  I think that the requirements should be lowered for K-12 teachers. The reason things got so bad is that there are a lot of education majors that go into K-12 education because it's easy. These are people that couldn't pass introductory science courses, let alone teach them to undergraduates. And there are lots of them, so they try to differentiate between themselves by getting masters degrees in easy (as opposed to chemistry or physics) fields such as education. Over time, this must have ossified to the point we are today, which is that this puffed-up "educational" arms race between teachers has translated into an institutional requirement. One of the reasons I didn't respect many of my grade school teachers is that they didn't actually know anything, and I could tell.
  - juiceandjuice 16y ago
    I think one thing that would help is that teachers should actually have a real degree with a minor in education, instead of the other way around, and that the pay would incentivize away from teachers just picking communications and getting away with that. Imagine if your history teachers had a history degree, your english teachers had an english degree, your kindergarden teachers had a sociology degree or (a more rigorous) early childhood development degree, and that the pay was competitive, if not more than what they would expect otherwise (for english and history majors, this wouldn't be so hard) Right now, teachers have every incentive to get in the 5 year Masters program in education and not learn anything about what they are teaching, but learn how to teach.
    - maxharris 16y ago
      I agree with the end you have in mind, but I don't think that legal requirements should (or could) be used to make it happen. What we're talking about is inevitable if we separate the government from education completely. In a free education market, parents would be free to ask a private school's administration, "What does your math teacher know about math, and what credentials does he have to prove it?"

by drblast 16y ago

dp1234 16y ago

That is one thing I never understood. There are less requirements to teach at the college level than to teach high school. Most people don't realize that most college teachers have never actually had any education courses, they just happen to have attained advanced degrees.

maxharris 16y ago
I think that the requirements should be lowered for K-12 teachers. The reason things got so bad is that there are a lot of education majors that go into K-12 education because it's easy. These are people that couldn't pass introductory science courses, let alone teach them to undergraduates. And there are lots of them, so they try to differentiate between themselves by getting masters degrees in easy (as opposed to chemistry or physics) fields such as education. Over time, this must have ossified to the point we are today, which is that this puffed-up "educational" arms race between teachers has translated into an institutional requirement. One of the reasons I didn't respect many of my grade school teachers is that they didn't actually know anything, and I could tell.
- juiceandjuice 16y ago
  I think one thing that would help is that teachers should actually have a real degree with a minor in education, instead of the other way around, and that the pay would incentivize away from teachers just picking communications and getting away with that. Imagine if your history teachers had a history degree, your english teachers had an english degree, your kindergarden teachers had a sociology degree or (a more rigorous) early childhood development degree, and that the pay was competitive, if not more than what they would expect otherwise (for english and history majors, this wouldn't be so hard) Right now, teachers have every incentive to get in the 5 year Masters program in education and not learn anything about what they are teaching, but learn how to teach.
  - maxharris 16y ago
    I agree with the end you have in mind, but I don't think that legal requirements should (or could) be used to make it happen. What we're talking about is inevitable if we separate the government from education completely. In a free education market, parents would be free to ask a private school's administration, "What does your math teacher know about math, and what credentials does he have to prove it?"