4 ms·

Any data to back this up besides Musk saying his approach's the best?

aphextron 6y ago
https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/1197323020852793344 https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/1197323020852793344
toomuchtodo 6y ago
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/07/elon-musk-calls-lidar-a-fools-errand-other-autonomous-driving-experts-starting-to-agree/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/07/elon-musk-calls-lidar-a... https://youtu.be/fNgEG5rCav4 https://youtu.be/fNgEG5rCav4 > Anthony Levandowski, former Google/Waymo engineer, now backtracks on lidar and says, ”Elon is right.”
- 8note 6y ago
  He might not be the most trustworthy source with the waymo thing.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  It also, conveniently, lessens the potential value of the data he took with him, to say this.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  A quote from someone who stole trade secrets backtracking on the importance of said trade secrets is not exactly trustworthy.
gpm 6y ago
I mean, when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems, and that lidar is really expensive.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems What humans do 'just fine' isn't very relevant to self-driving tech. Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. Airplanes also don't fly like birds. > lidar is really expensive Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective.
  - aphextron 6y ago
    >Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. That's the whole point. Full autonomy will never truly happen until computers can do what human brains can with regards to driving. No amount of sensor technology will make up for that fact. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Sure. But that doesn't mean they have to do it the same way humans do, (same as airplanes don't emulate birds) - that is you can probably arrive at a similar outcome via multiple approaches, some quite different to how the human brain works.
  - gpm 6y ago
    > Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective. Somewhat, but if lidar was really cheap it wouldn't really matter if it was also not-necessary.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      Right, I just don't know we're far enough in to definitely say what is/isn't necessary at this point.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Last I checked it cost more than a $100,000 (on average, in the US) to raise a human to the point where they have sufficient control over their behavior and body that they could be trusted to safely drive a several ton vehicle. Humans have the biology for visual systems, and constant training, and it still takes us almost a decade to fully process distance properly. (This is why children will run in front of moving vehicles--they can't actually tell how far away they vehicles are.)
rsynnott 6y ago
Do you really need anything other than the divinely inspired word of St Elon of Cars? (I think Musk's 'data' to justify this is that humans don't have LIDAR. Which is true, but irrelevant, unless he's seriously proposing AGI)

https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/1197323020852793344 https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/1197323020852793344

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/07/elon-musk-calls-lidar-a-fools-errand-other-autonomous-driving-experts-starting-to-agree/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/07/elon-musk-calls-lidar-a... https://youtu.be/fNgEG5rCav4 https://youtu.be/fNgEG5rCav4 > Anthony Levandowski, former Google/Waymo engineer, now backtracks on lidar and says, ”Elon is right.”

8note 6y ago
He might not be the most trustworthy source with the waymo thing.
FireBeyond 6y ago
It also, conveniently, lessens the potential value of the data he took with him, to say this.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
three_seagrass 6y ago
A quote from someone who stole trade secrets backtracking on the importance of said trade secrets is not exactly trustworthy.

gpm 6y ago

I mean, when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems, and that lidar is really expensive.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> when musk says this he gives data to back it up - that humans manage just fine with visual systems What humans do 'just fine' isn't very relevant to self-driving tech. Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. Airplanes also don't fly like birds. > lidar is really expensive Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective.
- aphextron 6y ago
  >Humans balance just fine as well and yet the state of the art for robots is quite primitive. That's the whole point. Full autonomy will never truly happen until computers can do what human brains can with regards to driving. No amount of sensor technology will make up for that fact. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Sure. But that doesn't mean they have to do it the same way humans do, (same as airplanes don't emulate birds) - that is you can probably arrive at a similar outcome via multiple approaches, some quite different to how the human brain works.
- gpm 6y ago
  > Which, again, is somewhat separate to whether it is effective. Somewhat, but if lidar was really cheap it wouldn't really matter if it was also not-necessary.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    Right, I just don't know we're far enough in to definitely say what is/isn't necessary at this point.
gamblor956 6y ago
Last I checked it cost more than a $100,000 (on average, in the US) to raise a human to the point where they have sufficient control over their behavior and body that they could be trusted to safely drive a several ton vehicle. Humans have the biology for visual systems, and constant training, and it still takes us almost a decade to fully process distance properly. (This is why children will run in front of moving vehicles--they can't actually tell how far away they vehicles are.)

rsynnott 6y ago

Do you really need anything other than the divinely inspired word of St Elon of Cars? (I think Musk's 'data' to justify this is that humans don't have LIDAR. Which is true, but irrelevant, unless he's seriously proposing AGI)