5 ms·

Why would a lawyer earn more money than a teacher? Only your ingrained cultural expectations suggest this. Can you strip those out and suggest any objective rea

Why would a lawyer earn more money than a teacher? Only your ingrained cultural expectations suggest this. Can you strip those out and suggest any objective reasons that lawyers are worth more? Do they train for longer? Is their work more important? Do they need better school grades?

lallysingh 16y ago
There's a better merit->pay feedback cycle. A good lawyer will get repeat business. When am I going to take a class again?
- pmorici 16y ago
  You're kidding right? College students in particular are always trying to get into sections of classes taught by professors they know are good either through first hand experience or word of mouth recommendation.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    lallysingh was describing a merit->pay cycle. You are describing a merit->opinion cycle.
  - defen 16y ago
    College is so different from primary school that your stated objection is completely irrelevant. Students at the vast majority of US primary schools do not get to choose what material they learn, or who teaches it to them.
    - maxharris 16y ago
      Don't you think this is a problem, at least for some students? It was for me. I was an awful student all the way through high school (graduated with something around a D average). I blossomed in college with a near-perfect GPA in a natural science major. (What I had to go through to get into the university I did is another story, and beside the point.) The important difference between these two environments is that I wasn't a prisoner at the university. I have never accepted authority that I thought was unjust ("Who are you to tell me that you know what's better for me than I do?"), and that's exactly how I viewed my education before college. Granted, there are sensible limitations (mostly related to safety) on how far children can be left to their own devices, but all I ever wanted as a child was to spring from my daily prison and do something that I knew was worthwhile.
      - defen 16y ago
        Oh I completely agree - the current system is horribly broken, and for the vast majority of students is really a Lord of the Flies-meets-babysitting kind of situation. I was just trying to say that pmorici's analogy, which was already stretched in trying to apply the way a lawyer/doctor gets repeat business to the way a college professor gets "new business", completely falls down when applied to primary school teachers.
        maxharris 16y ago
        I think parents would try to get the best teacher for their money if they were free to choose where and how their children were educated. While what we have today is far from choosing a lawyer, there is no reason why primary education couldn't or shouldn't be a market in the future.
  - cheez 16y ago
    You're talking about 5 students per graduating class.
uuilly 16y ago
Lawyers make more money because teachers are willing to work for less than lawyers.
barry-cotter 16y ago
>Why would a lawyer earn more money than a teacher? Apart from governemnt lawyers and academics everybody is in private practice or working for a company. Their employers/clients have them to deal with money problems. Whoever is close to the money gets to keep some. Also, teachers have tenure, great pensions, work only 9-10 months a year, and within a few years of being hired, work under 40 hours a week on average. >Only your ingrained cultural expectations suggest this. Can you strip those out and suggest any objective reasons that lawyers are worth more? If you mean morally, no, it's a value discussion, and those are always boring because nobody ever convinces anybody. If you're talking about how much their labour is worth... A good lawyer makes their client money or stops bad things happening to them. This is a much more valuable service than childcare/socialisation/education to the people handing out the money. Children have no money or freedom after all. >Do they train for longer? Not relevant >Is their work more important? Value judgement; all heat, no light >Do they need better school grades? Yes, but that's also not terribly relevant.
- nitrogen 16y ago
  ...work under 40 hours a week on average.... No teacher I've met works under 40 hours a week. My parents are both teachers, as well as at least one friend. They may be "on the clock" for less than 40 hours a week, but consistently have to work up to 60 hours a week to satisfy all of their responsibilities (including meeting with students and parents, grading assignments, attending meetings, etc).
  - brg 16y ago
    Exceptional teachers work more, and provide much more for their students. However the vast majority of teachers are not exceptional. As a thought exam think about what are they doing off the clock? Most likely grading or setting exams. The best and youngest work over their pre-packaged lesson plans and augment them to the best of their ability. However these are the best, the top few percent. The scan-tron crew do none of this.
    - nitrogen 16y ago

lallysingh 16y ago

There's a better merit->pay feedback cycle. A good lawyer will get repeat business. When am I going to take a class again?

pmorici 16y ago
You're kidding right? College students in particular are always trying to get into sections of classes taught by professors they know are good either through first hand experience or word of mouth recommendation.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  lallysingh was describing a merit->pay cycle. You are describing a merit->opinion cycle.
- defen 16y ago
  College is so different from primary school that your stated objection is completely irrelevant. Students at the vast majority of US primary schools do not get to choose what material they learn, or who teaches it to them.
  - maxharris 16y ago
    Don't you think this is a problem, at least for some students? It was for me. I was an awful student all the way through high school (graduated with something around a D average). I blossomed in college with a near-perfect GPA in a natural science major. (What I had to go through to get into the university I did is another story, and beside the point.) The important difference between these two environments is that I wasn't a prisoner at the university. I have never accepted authority that I thought was unjust ("Who are you to tell me that you know what's better for me than I do?"), and that's exactly how I viewed my education before college. Granted, there are sensible limitations (mostly related to safety) on how far children can be left to their own devices, but all I ever wanted as a child was to spring from my daily prison and do something that I knew was worthwhile.
    - defen 16y ago
      Oh I completely agree - the current system is horribly broken, and for the vast majority of students is really a Lord of the Flies-meets-babysitting kind of situation. I was just trying to say that pmorici's analogy, which was already stretched in trying to apply the way a lawyer/doctor gets repeat business to the way a college professor gets "new business", completely falls down when applied to primary school teachers.
      - maxharris 16y ago
        I think parents would try to get the best teacher for their money if they were free to choose where and how their children were educated. While what we have today is far from choosing a lawyer, there is no reason why primary education couldn't or shouldn't be a market in the future.
- cheez 16y ago
  You're talking about 5 students per graduating class.

uuilly 16y ago

Lawyers make more money because teachers are willing to work for less than lawyers.

barry-cotter 16y ago

>Why would a lawyer earn more money than a teacher? Apart from governemnt lawyers and academics everybody is in private practice or working for a company. Their employers/clients have them to deal with money problems. Whoever is close to the money gets to keep some. Also, teachers have tenure, great pensions, work only 9-10 months a year, and within a few years of being hired, work under 40 hours a week on average. >Only your ingrained cultural expectations suggest this. Can you strip those out and suggest any objective reasons that lawyers are worth more? If you mean morally, no, it's a value discussion, and those are always boring because nobody ever convinces anybody. If you're talking about how much their labour is worth... A good lawyer makes their client money or stops bad things happening to them. This is a much more valuable service than childcare/socialisation/education to the people handing out the money. Children have no money or freedom after all. >Do they train for longer? Not relevant >Is their work more important? Value judgement; all heat, no light >Do they need better school grades? Yes, but that's also not terribly relevant.

nitrogen 16y ago
...work under 40 hours a week on average.... No teacher I've met works under 40 hours a week. My parents are both teachers, as well as at least one friend. They may be "on the clock" for less than 40 hours a week, but consistently have to work up to 60 hours a week to satisfy all of their responsibilities (including meeting with students and parents, grading assignments, attending meetings, etc).
- brg 16y ago
  Exceptional teachers work more, and provide much more for their students. However the vast majority of teachers are not exceptional. As a thought exam think about what are they doing off the clock? Most likely grading or setting exams. The best and youngest work over their pre-packaged lesson plans and augment them to the best of their ability. However these are the best, the top few percent. The scan-tron crew do none of this.
  - nitrogen 16y ago