18 ms·
Safe: Set maximum capacity for any room, floor, or building
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- _bxg1 6y agoInteresting, but I'm skeptical it could make some semblance of normal life "safe" purely through occupancy counts. It also seems like a likely very expensive solution to something that could be solved with a handheld clicker. Corporate offices might splurge for it, but they're also more likely to just have people working from home.
- ericnjorgenson 6y agoYou think a software solution is more expensive than someone on the payroll with a handheld clicker?
- ForHackernews 6y agoDepends mainly on whether you already have employees working as receptionists/greeters/etc.
- afar 6y agoMore difficult with multiple doors when you have radio between to reconcile count.
- piniondna 6y agoI think people think that shooting down ideas makes them sound intelligent and “in the know”, but in reality it just makes you sound rigid and not creative enough to see the merit in a idea. This seems to be a common attitude on HN, but it’s less than useful. Genuine critical thinking is great... dogmatic cynicism is useless.
- vorpalhex 6y agoI think there are some valid concerns here. Someone running a clicker is already common procedure at some busy places, and it's often a hostess or someone else who is already "doing stuff". Likewise any sensor is going to open up some questions about the data it collects and it's method of action - what's the error margin? I think there's arguments for systems like this as well, but it's on you to make them, not just complain about others being skeptical.
- afar 6y agoAccuracy is fundamental. When installed properly, a 99%+ f1 score is achievable.
- pbourke 6y agoFirst off - this is really neat, especially the focus on privacy and the use of AI at the edge. It seems like the occupancy limit problem for small rooms is much more challenging than the building-density problem, since a single error could DOS the room. How do you account for that?
- afar 6y agoDef. We call that the OB1 problem (off-by-one). If either event detection (did something happen) or event classification (entry or entrance) is wrong, you can be off the whole day. To solve that, we have a different approach / non-threshold approach for boolean occupancy. Not implemented here.
- vorpalhex 6y agoWhat data does the sensor collect? How visible is the data it sends back to the platform?
- afar 6y agoIt's a custom sensor in the lidar family. Uses infrared lasers as illumination and generates depth data. Essentially millions of height values. When depth is rendered to be human legible it look looks like greyscale silhouettes (dark grey is far away, lighter gray is nearer). Sensor processes those values on the edge and published +1/-1 and telemetry data (system health).
- afar 6y agoNets out to ~$85/mo. For a small place, that's substantially less expensive than staffing it full time. disclosure: co-founder here.
- _bxg1 6y agoI didn't see the pricing; that's more affordable than I would've thought, especially with the rent-instead-of-buy model.
- afar 6y agoIn an ideal world, we just give this stuff away and the applications on the platform become the primary value. Some people are open to that others are less used to having a widget and not owning it. Will take time.
- city41 6y agoThe name bothers me a bit. Social distancing does not make us “safe” just “safer”. It worries me that people might think things like masks and possibly this tool are more effective than they actually are and become complacent.
- afar 6y agoIt's definitely going to take a village of tools and methods. Don't think it will make it more dangerous, though.
- gavman 6y agoThe idea is definitely cool (and important/impactful at this time if successful). That said, in the midst of a global pandemic where human density is inherently dangerous and social distancing is espoused, naming a product "Safe by Density" gives the exact opposite initial reaction you're probably hoping for.
- afar 6y agoYeah. Should have been "Safe by reducing Density"
- redwall_hp 6y ago"Safe from Density"
- afar 6y ago+1
- dang 6y agoI've replaced the submitted title ("Introducing: Safe by Density") with a more specific phrase from the article.
- rosstex 6y agoI guess the old "Safety in numbers" adage is going the way of the dodo?
- Rapzid 6y agoSafe by scarcity
- jayd16 6y agoIt is a bit Orwellian. War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Safe by Density.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y agoI think it could work. Heavens know, I will now have to actively avoid places that are not at least careful about how they reopen. I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a political expression, but some things cannot be helped.
- afar 6y agoThe bet is that by giving data back to people to let them make their own decisions about safety, they'll self moderate.
- redwall_hp 6y agoExcept for the workers, paid predominantly minimum wage or near it, who effectively have no choice.
- afar 6y agoActually, many deployments are going into factories, fulfillment centers, and meat processing plants specifically to help keep workers safe.
- jedberg 6y ago> I am mildly concerned about people, who see doing the opposite as a political expression Those people are a very small but vocal minority, being amplified by social media. All the data says that most people are complying with safe practices, even when their governments aren't requiring it.
- hanniabu 6y agoDoesn't help when things are pressured into opening up and then you're forced to make the decision to put yourself at risk by going to work or get fired.
- dkdk8283 6y ago> Those people are a very small but vocal minority, being amplified by social media. I disagree. Tens of thousands of people in my state don’t obey any stay at home order. People take off masks once in stores. As someone who also goes out a lot right now I haven’t seen anyone be asked to put their mask on or leave.
- IgorPartola 6y agoI love this idea and I love how it looks. The design is top notch. Really hope to see this near me soon.
- larschdk 6y agoThe stylized design makes my brain recognize is as just another random inspirational poster or an add, not something I should pay attention to. We have standard and widespread symbols already for stop/go which should be applied here in some form.
- afar 6y agoThat's an interesting point. What would you recommend? Follow street sign structure?
- kevin2r 6y agoA phone app could replace this right? Using the front facing camera you could run some image recognition to count the flow of people and show the statistics on screen. Put the phone on a stand and leave it running. Much cheaper.
- flak48 6y agoTheir whole selling point seems to be that their hardware + software can count people accurately without needing a camera. The premise being that cameras spook people. Cameras are already commonplace enough where I work, for security purposes. So not sure how easily cameras can be eliminated. The dashboards they provide don't seem to be have to be coupled to the kind of ($850) hardware they are selling. Like you said, cameras should be able to do the job.
- afar 6y agoI don't think cameras will be displaced / eliminated. It's just a question of whether or not they will be accepted as a form of active surveillance or remain a method of security. Today, they are largely security but it's entirely possible the world moves toward mass surveillance.
- afar 6y agoMany have / are trying this. Harder to pull off than it seems. Privacy is a big part but distributing the infra to do this at scale is nontrivial. A number of years back Placemeter used to pay you 50/mo to install your Android device on a window sill so they could understand movement. Never quite took off.
- squnch 6y agoFrankly this is an idiotic idea. In a nice cafe or lobby you’re going to have a phone on a stand with a USB cord leading to a wall wart with a readout on a 5 inch screen telling people it’s safe to go in?
- zyang 6y agoOr you can just fingerprint the wifi/bluetooth signals from people's phones.
- riffic 6y agoViruses don't care about how many people are in a room, and this doesn't seem like something people are going to worry about much 10 years down the road.
- mceachen 6y agoAt the same time, I'd much rather shop in a small neighborhood grocery store with 5-10 other patrons instead of 200. Trader Joe's and other retailers (at least in the bay area) have to delegate a full-time employee to the front door to throttle incoming patrons. This would free up that employee.
- afar 6y agoThere are grocers who have required all corporate employees to work at least 3 days a week in a store bagging groceries, cleaning carts, and managing lines. Side not, essential businesses are the only real experts in safety right now. Everyone WFH is just guessing.
- MertsA 6y ago>This would free up that employee. In my area Walmart has started making each aisle one way and counting people coming into the store. Just yesterday I went in and it's already devolved into no one following the directions on the aisle, no one seems to be in the slightest bit considerate about trying to give others space to go around. People were regularly reaching around someone getting an item and coming into close contact instead of waiting all of 5 seconds for them to get their item and move. There are already plenty of news articles about customers doing increasingly outrageous things and attacking employees because they dared to tell the customer not to violate store policy around purchase limits, senior hours, mask policies, occupancy limits, etc. The fancy sign telling someone to wait will not free up employees because there will inevitably be a chunk of the population who ignores it outright and when they just walk in the door, others will follow. These policies are meaningless unless there's some actual enforcement.
- afar 6y ago
- lvturner 6y agoHaving seen the way people 'queue' when waiting outside an eatery implementing social distancing guidelines - this only solves part of the problem. Edit: Perhaps integrating it with some sort of QR Code based ticketing system for entry would alleviate the issues of people queueing (or huddling) outside the store?
- afar 6y agoYou're right. "Notify me when it's quiet" is a thing the system supports. In related news, load balancing humans is a two-sided thing.
- sohamsankaran 6y agoHow do these devices actually work?
- raizinho 6y agoHere's an interview from a while back: https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2018/07/16/counting-people-with-andrew-farah/ https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2018/07/16/counting-peo...
- redis_mlc 6y agoSo ... how does it work, given that 2m is not enough, and the distance of 10m is thought to be more likely? :)
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoMy first thought is this puts way too much stock in the idea that rooms are safe as long as they aren't too packed. To me it seems like this 1.5m rule and person limits aren't actually backed up by real research and are just numbers pulled out of a hat when something had to be done fast. We shouldn't be finding ways to get people back in to shared buildings as soon as possible because infections don't just give up because the TV on the door said OK.
- redis_mlc 6y agoI was just thinking that the difference in fatalities between NY and SF might be that NY has a colder climate, so airtight buildings with more heating. A virus like corona with a high R0 would spread like crazy in a building with active ventilation piping. Or an airliner. Corona is really a non-event in SF.
- alfozan 6y agoThis is a cool concept, though it appears to only care about the total number of people being below a set threshold regardless how people interact (i.e. maintain social distancing) Shameless plug: two friends and I put together a small app that uses security cameras feed to calculate real-time density + estimate "safe" space capacity: Demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgxhptePxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgxhptePxM Demo site: https://flou.fyi/ https://flou.fyi/ (takes a bit to load)
- triyambakam 6y agoI am sad about how far apart we're growing as people due to virus that is no more scary than the flu.
- AnotherGoodName 6y agoFunny you say no more scary than the flu when the flu is literally the cause of the last pandemic that killed 3% if the global population.
- triyambakam 6y agoSure, to be more correct I mean a mild flu season, not 1918.
- ashleshbiradar 6y agoyou mean to imply covid-19 is no more scary than a normal seasonal flu ?
- triyambakam 6y agoYes. Are we to live our lives always like this now - always trying to stay 2m away from each other?
- ashleshbiradar 6y agoif not keeping a 2m distance if going to get us killed, then I guess many would not have a problem with keeping the 2m distance. Ultimately it is all about survival.
- triyambakam 6y agoThis is all way overhyped. The virus is not as deadly as you're being conditioned to believe. It's about control
- 6y ago
- euroderf 6y ago"Indoor Densitivity"
- wafn 6y agoI could not find whether this integrates with NFPA etc. to help interpret blueprints (or simplified diagrams). While determining capacity is relatively easy, it could definitely be easier.