15 ms·

The good news is, unlike Windows, macOS has a fantastic default PDF viewer ("Preview") and I don't know why anyone would ever install Acrobat on it

by _bxg1 6y ago

mfer 6y ago
Preview has issues with PDFs with form fields right now. It causes a bunch of people to need to install Acrobat for that use case. :(
- jmondi 6y ago
  Installed Acrobat a few weeks ago for this use case specifically. I feel like Preview used to be a lot better at editing fields, recently it has been a real pain.
  - ggregoire 6y ago
    Are there not any alternatives to Adobe Acrobat Reader on macOS for editing fields and other use cases listed in the other comments?
    - leejoramo 6y ago
      Apple's Preview does a pretty good job with generic pdf forms. Unfortunately, Adobe has created multiple types of pdf forms using different technologies and very complex specs. Apple does not support all of these. (You can also find many cases of PDF forms using Adobe tools that do not round trip between platforms). PDF Export does a good job of filing in the gaps. https://pdfexpert.com https://pdfexpert.com
      - rspeed 6y ago
        Not just complex specs. Some of them are proprietary.
    - gav 6y ago
      There's some non-free options: Editing/Form Fill/etc: Nitro[1] Signing: Nitro[1], HelloSign[2], airSlate[3], Smallpdf[4] (limited functionality) [1] https://www.gonitro.com https://www.gonitro.com [2] https://www.hellosign.com https://www.hellosign.com [3] https://www.airslate.com https://www.airslate.com [4] https://smallpdf.com https://smallpdf.com
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    PDF has two types of forms: native and JS driven. I'd bet that the problems are with the JS. I'd also be willing to bet that Adobe makes Acrobat author forms in a way that intentionally breaks third party readers.
    - hunter2_ 6y ago
      <airquotes>P</airquotes>DF
- behnamoh 6y ago
  OTOH, Preview renders PDFs way better than Adobe Reader does. Tweaking the settings in AR didn't help either. I only wish Preview would do two things: - open files in "maximized" view. - when opening a file, Left/Right arrow keys don't let you navigate the pages. Instead, they move the current page a few pixels left/right! (they work like horizontal scrollers)
- pfortuny 6y ago
  What about Skim? It is the one I use.
  - behnamoh 6y ago
    It's good, but creates additional files for your annotations and comments - which btw, cannot be read in other software.
    - pfortuny 6y ago
      Yea, that is right.
- jiofih 6y ago
  That’s interesting. The iPad version works extremely well for editing.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Luckily other PDF editors do well with form fields and don't bundle a JS VM into their runtime.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  People keep saying this, but the form-filling tools are basically identical to Reader's. I don't get it. What Preview doesn't support is JavaScript, as far as I can tell, so it can't work with "smart" PDF's, e.g. that will do calculations for you. Is that what you're referring to? Or I'd love to know any specific issue you've run into with form fields.
  - dathinab 6y ago
    The problem is that if the PDF forms where create with an Adobe program even things which should work with generic PDF might not do so because the Adobe program used JS or whatever below the cover. EDIT: I looked into some of the PDFs again and it seems I had been wrong. Not sure what they use but it doesn't seem to be js. EDIT EDIT: But I found other forms which where affected see my response below.
    - crazygringo 6y ago
      Is that a real thing? I've encountered JavaScript-heavy PDF's before, but which were obviously so. (Automatically calculating values for one form field based on another, generating QR codes, etc.) I've never come across a seemingly "normal" form PDF but which secretly used JavaScript for normal things like form filling, so that normal form-filling tools didn't work. I don't understand why the normal PDF type-in-a-text-box tool wouldn't work. Have you actually come across this? Can you point to any examples?
      - dathinab 6y ago
        I have run into this with regard to basic, but "slightly" more advanced features then text fields on forms in my university. You can be sure that even Adobe won't add JS for forms with plain text fields. ;=) EDIT: I looked into some of the PDFs again and it seems I had been wrong. Not sure what they use but it doesn't seem to be js. Sorry about this.
      - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        Yes, as another commenter pointed out, Canadian govt citizenship forms, e.g. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/proof-citizenship/apply.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
- dathinab 6y ago
  There is quite a bunch of "PDF" features around forms which basically only work with Adobe PDF and maybe one or two other ones. But good luck if non of them are available for you. Worse many "office" people which create PDF's with form fields use Adobe tools, so they never see that what they hand out to thousends of students isn't working with >90% of PDF viewers....
  - rspeed 6y ago
    It's because of this. Adobe hates us. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFA Further reading: https://eclecticlight.co/2019/06/18/pdf-without-adobe-23-the-nightmare-of-forms/ https://eclecticlight.co/2019/06/18/pdf-without-adobe-23-the...
- lowwave 6y ago
  For sure, however it seems like vast majority of use of PDF, (which is to view a printed document as it is) is addressed by Preview. For stuff like sign a PDF and form are not things normal people need to use.
  - techslave 6y ago
    so the only people doing that are abby normal?
- m463 6y ago
  This sounds like a page in a playbook for a company that wants to maintain their monopoly. - it is plausibly open - there are enough edge cases that your tool is the only one that does it reliably. This is similar to doc format - apple tools or openoffice can open it, but screw it up for everyone if they try to write it. There is a wonderful rant about another adobe file format .PSD in this code here: https://github.com/gco/xee/blob/master/XeePhotoshopLoader.m https://github.com/gco/xee/blob/master/XeePhotoshopLoader.m
  - dhimes 6y ago
    That's beautiful. However, if I weren't an only child in two weeks I would take exception to that "old" bit describing the Uncle.
- steve_taylor 6y ago
  Why would anyone in their right mind create a PDF form?
  - jusssi 6y ago
    They are actually quite handy when the only allowed method of submission is via snail mail or fax. Much better than the alternative of printing an empty form and filling it all in by hand.
  - BolexNOLA 6y ago
    Man I don’t know what industry you’re in but I get 3-4 PDF’s a week.
freefriedrice 6y ago
Preview can't digitally sign PDFs. I have to do this on a near daily basis. EDIT: I mean sign with a certificate, not add an image. Personally I would prefer to not have any adobe software on my mac.
- sqs 6y ago
  By "digitally sign", do you mean insert a picture of your handwritten signature? It can do that: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/digitally-sign-a-pdf-using-preview-on-mac/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/digitally-sign-a-pdf-using-.... If you mean cryptographically sign, then disregard my comment.
  - freefriedrice 6y ago
    Yeah, the latter: keychain certificate (under "Certificates").
  - hunter2_ 6y ago
    This lack of differentiation really grinds my gears. Why in the world do both of these activities share a name? It would be really interesting to take a random sample of the population and ask them some basic context like their occupation/education, and ask them whether a digital signature comprises a graphic of handwriting (validated with eyeballs) or something more sophisticated (validated with math). There will be some obvious trends, but I suspect there will also be some surprises.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      The point of a signature is to affirm the authenticity of something. When you sign something by hand, you're showing that you reviewed it. If you cryptographically sign something, you're doing the same thing to a bunch of bits, and arguably in a way that's a less easy to forge.
    - freefriedrice 6y ago
      You're referring to "term overloading". This is pervasive throughout all domains of engineering, but more so in software because there are so many conflicting standards, definitions and citations. It's really hard to get a handle on. Like, I would assume that posting on HN the audience would assume I would not confuse "overlaying pixels of my signature on a document," with, say ECDSA sign & verify. But I was wrong to assume that. So, barring a common definition, should we speak with increased precision thus verbosity? Perhaps. But if THIS example grinds your gears, hooo boy, hang of for a ride.... :)
reaperducer 6y ago
The good news is, unlike Windows, macOS has a fantastic default PDF viewer ("Preview") and I don't know why anyone would ever install Acrobat on it I, too, prefer Preview to Acrobat. But part of my workflow occasionally involves copying text from a PDF to create a web page. Preview cannot be counted on to reliably or accurately copy that text. It seems to have particular problems with the letter "f" when next to a letter "s," in addition to other flaws. Acrobat, on the other hand, always copies the text correctly. Aside from this one use, however, I always employ Preview because otherwise it is far superior.
- PhantomGremlin 6y ago
  It seems to have particular problems with the letter "f" when next to a letter "s," in addition to other flaws. That's such a weird bug. I wonder if Preview is trying to be too cute with "less common" stylistic ligatures. Try some of the other ones mentioned in Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_ligature#Stylistic_ligatures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_ligature#Stylisti...
b3kart 6y ago
Because PDFs in Preview are blurry on external screens ever since Sierra. Acrobat works fine. I hate most third-party PDF viewers, but here we are.
- macintux 6y ago
  That’s...odd. I’ve never noticed it, and I’m viewing an AWS user guide right now on a 4K display (MacBook Pro, Mojave) with no crispness issues.
  - b3kart 6y ago
    > 4K display That’s your answer. Apple being Apple either have no lower-res screens to test on, or once again have decided to force the industry forward.
    - macintux 6y ago
      This page may help. https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-macos-mojave-with-subpixel-antialiasing/ https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-...
      - b3kart 6y ago
        Thanks. I’ve tried about a million different tricks at the time, none of which worked. I’ve given up on it. There has been a Twitter thread by an Apple engineer which I won’t be able to locate now, but the crux was that they know they’re breaking things for non-4K screens, but they don’t care enough/don’t have the resources (lol) to fix that.
thefounder 6y ago
Preview doesn't support a lot of stuff such dynamic forms. Most of the gov documents I need to sign are not displayed in preview.
muizelaar 6y ago
PDFs with XFA forms are not supported by Preview
NoSorryCannot 6y ago
Windows uses Edge IIRC, and it does pretty well.
- GloriousKoji 6y ago
  It does a decent job for heavily text based pdfs like legal forms or manuals and even lets you annotate the document with a pen or highlighter but it chokes on more image based pdfs like slide decks or schematics.
- worble 6y ago
  Old Edge was a great PDF reader and EPUB viewer. New edge... well it's just the same as Chrome, which is to say that it's fine.
ant6n 6y ago
To fill out government forms.
bootlooped 6y ago
I really like Firefox's built in PDF viewer. It even shows the table of contents where available.
- hnick 6y ago
  Yes it's pretty good. I actually used PDF.js to debug a malformed issue at work once. The javascript console error log gave a clue about the issue where no other tools said anything.
- kccqzy 6y ago
  So does Preview. So does Acrobat Reader.
softwaredoug 6y ago
Preview is such a great app. For simple image editing too... I used to have to get gimp to crop, rotate, and resize images, preview does the task simply and well.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  It seems crazy, but Preview is genuinely a big part of keeping me stuck in the Apple ecosystem. That iOS doesn't have anything like it is the main thing keeping me from ditching macOS for iOS (+ remote Linux VMs), even. It's a sign of how crap the UX is or has become on Windows or Linux that it's so surprising to have a basic utility program function so reliably, so well, and with such light resource use, while consistently delighting with its versatility. I have similar feelings about their office suite. In general their add-on and utility software is just great. I'd miss all of it on any other platform (and do, when I use those—yes, even the file manager, which is still less crashy, less prone to weird interface bugginess, and more consistent than any featureful equivalent I've used on Linux, and I've used... oh, all the big ones, over the last 20 years, and I don't find it any worse than Windows Explorer, aside from preferring some of the latter's hotkeys) but of all of them... yeah, Preview may be #1, which was not something I expected when I first started using OSX/macOS about 10 years ago.
- neurostimulant 6y ago
  Yeah, preview for simple annotation or cropping, photopea for heavier tasks. I haven't installed 3rd party photo editors in years.
riffic 6y ago
as far as I know the macOS display subsystem was built around the PDF specification. You'd think the OS can handle viewing documents without much additional third-party overhead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_2D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_2D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)#Use_of_PDF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)#Use_of...
- Someone 6y ago
  It uses the same drawing primitives as PDF, but it certainly isn’t built around the PDF specification, which is enormous. To give a few examples, there is no JavaScript interpreter in Quartz (https://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html https://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html), nor does it have 3D graphics rendering built in (https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/displaying-3d-models-pdfs.html https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/displaying-3d-models-p...), or a Flash engine (https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/flash-player-needed-acrobat-reader.html; https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/flash-player-needed-ac... this has bee removed from the Acrobat install, but used to ship with it) To support PDFs fully, all of that would have to be implemented on top of Quartz.
sahaskatta 6y ago
Windows 10 has had a built in PDF viewer for at least 5 years. It's the Edge browser which is now based on Chromium. You can sign and save documents too.
- chapium 6y ago
  It still can't form fill. Edge's pdf viewer is definitely a lot more pleasant to use than anything else I've used.
devy 6y ago
Redaction, for one, is a desired feature that don't usually come with free PDF viewers on macOS like Preview.
fortran77 6y ago
Windows has a default PDF viewer that works very well. Try it!
barbs 6y ago
A good open-source PDF reader I've used in the past on Windows is Sumatra. Very lightweight and functional. https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html
- interestica 6y ago
  Def check out Xodo PDF reader. It's been my favourite in terms of speed/functionality. It has been the best for use on Win10 touch screen.
hnick 6y ago
As a general rule, Acrobat ignores and silently fixes a lot of issues with PDFs that more stricter implementations will complain about (it goes beyond the spec to be accommodating). This unfortunately means a lot of programs out there are making malformed PDFs but their users don't know because "it works here on Acrobat!". So that's one reason I have to install it despite alternatives on Windows, but maybe Preview is the same in this regard and fine for general users.
mapgrep 6y ago
You buy Acrobat DC the impacted product because you’re using it as more than a reader. OCR image to text (laying the text invisibly within the pdf as metadata behind the image) is a common use case. Slim down a bloated pdf eg that came out of a scanner driver. Properly redact sensitive information (legal, govt, journalism context). The software is flawed even beyond security issues but for creating or editing PDF files there is not much competition. (There is some and I’ve used that too and it’s mostly worse. It’s a hard problem apparently.)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
interestica 6y ago
If you're on Win10, the Xodo PDF app is the best/fastest - and it allows editing and page order changes. And it's free. And it's a dream to use on a touch screen. Trying to open the same high quality/density PDFs in Adobe (even just the reader) is an unresponsive nightmare. I don't even understand how there can be such a significant difference in performance when Adobe created the format....
- clircle 6y ago
  That's interesting. I've been using SumatraPDF for years. I might give this a try.

The good news is, unlike Windows, macOS has a fantastic default PDF viewer ("Preview") and I don't know why anyone would ever install Acrobat on it

by _bxg1 6y ago

The good news is, unlike Windows, macOS has a fantastic default PDF viewer ("Preview") and I don't know why anyone would ever install Acrobat on it

mfer 6y ago

Preview has issues with PDFs with form fields right now. It causes a bunch of people to need to install Acrobat for that use case. :(

jmondi 6y ago
Installed Acrobat a few weeks ago for this use case specifically. I feel like Preview used to be a lot better at editing fields, recently it has been a real pain.
- ggregoire 6y ago
  Are there not any alternatives to Adobe Acrobat Reader on macOS for editing fields and other use cases listed in the other comments?
  - leejoramo 6y ago
    Apple's Preview does a pretty good job with generic pdf forms. Unfortunately, Adobe has created multiple types of pdf forms using different technologies and very complex specs. Apple does not support all of these. (You can also find many cases of PDF forms using Adobe tools that do not round trip between platforms). PDF Export does a good job of filing in the gaps. https://pdfexpert.com https://pdfexpert.com
    - rspeed 6y ago
      Not just complex specs. Some of them are proprietary.
  - gav 6y ago
    There's some non-free options: Editing/Form Fill/etc: Nitro[1] Signing: Nitro[1], HelloSign[2], airSlate[3], Smallpdf[4] (limited functionality) [1] https://www.gonitro.com https://www.gonitro.com [2] https://www.hellosign.com https://www.hellosign.com [3] https://www.airslate.com https://www.airslate.com [4] https://smallpdf.com https://smallpdf.com
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  PDF has two types of forms: native and JS driven. I'd bet that the problems are with the JS. I'd also be willing to bet that Adobe makes Acrobat author forms in a way that intentionally breaks third party readers.
  - hunter2_ 6y ago
    <airquotes>P</airquotes>DF
behnamoh 6y ago
OTOH, Preview renders PDFs way better than Adobe Reader does. Tweaking the settings in AR didn't help either. I only wish Preview would do two things: - open files in "maximized" view. - when opening a file, Left/Right arrow keys don't let you navigate the pages. Instead, they move the current page a few pixels left/right! (they work like horizontal scrollers)
pfortuny 6y ago
What about Skim? It is the one I use.
- behnamoh 6y ago
  It's good, but creates additional files for your annotations and comments - which btw, cannot be read in other software.
  - pfortuny 6y ago
    Yea, that is right.
jiofih 6y ago
That’s interesting. The iPad version works extremely well for editing.
r00fus 6y ago
Luckily other PDF editors do well with form fields and don't bundle a JS VM into their runtime.
crazygringo 6y ago
People keep saying this, but the form-filling tools are basically identical to Reader's. I don't get it. What Preview doesn't support is JavaScript, as far as I can tell, so it can't work with "smart" PDF's, e.g. that will do calculations for you. Is that what you're referring to? Or I'd love to know any specific issue you've run into with form fields.
- dathinab 6y ago
  The problem is that if the PDF forms where create with an Adobe program even things which should work with generic PDF might not do so because the Adobe program used JS or whatever below the cover. EDIT: I looked into some of the PDFs again and it seems I had been wrong. Not sure what they use but it doesn't seem to be js. EDIT EDIT: But I found other forms which where affected see my response below.
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    Is that a real thing? I've encountered JavaScript-heavy PDF's before, but which were obviously so. (Automatically calculating values for one form field based on another, generating QR codes, etc.) I've never come across a seemingly "normal" form PDF but which secretly used JavaScript for normal things like form filling, so that normal form-filling tools didn't work. I don't understand why the normal PDF type-in-a-text-box tool wouldn't work. Have you actually come across this? Can you point to any examples?
    - dathinab 6y ago
      I have run into this with regard to basic, but "slightly" more advanced features then text fields on forms in my university. You can be sure that even Adobe won't add JS for forms with plain text fields. ;=) EDIT: I looked into some of the PDFs again and it seems I had been wrong. Not sure what they use but it doesn't seem to be js. Sorry about this.
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      Yes, as another commenter pointed out, Canadian govt citizenship forms, e.g. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/proof-citizenship/apply.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
dathinab 6y ago
There is quite a bunch of "PDF" features around forms which basically only work with Adobe PDF and maybe one or two other ones. But good luck if non of them are available for you. Worse many "office" people which create PDF's with form fields use Adobe tools, so they never see that what they hand out to thousends of students isn't working with >90% of PDF viewers....
- rspeed 6y ago
  It's because of this. Adobe hates us. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFA Further reading: https://eclecticlight.co/2019/06/18/pdf-without-adobe-23-the-nightmare-of-forms/ https://eclecticlight.co/2019/06/18/pdf-without-adobe-23-the...
lowwave 6y ago
For sure, however it seems like vast majority of use of PDF, (which is to view a printed document as it is) is addressed by Preview. For stuff like sign a PDF and form are not things normal people need to use.
- techslave 6y ago
  so the only people doing that are abby normal?
m463 6y ago
This sounds like a page in a playbook for a company that wants to maintain their monopoly. - it is plausibly open - there are enough edge cases that your tool is the only one that does it reliably. This is similar to doc format - apple tools or openoffice can open it, but screw it up for everyone if they try to write it. There is a wonderful rant about another adobe file format .PSD in this code here: https://github.com/gco/xee/blob/master/XeePhotoshopLoader.m https://github.com/gco/xee/blob/master/XeePhotoshopLoader.m
- dhimes 6y ago
  That's beautiful. However, if I weren't an only child in two weeks I would take exception to that "old" bit describing the Uncle.
steve_taylor 6y ago
Why would anyone in their right mind create a PDF form?
- jusssi 6y ago
  They are actually quite handy when the only allowed method of submission is via snail mail or fax. Much better than the alternative of printing an empty form and filling it all in by hand.
- BolexNOLA 6y ago
  Man I don’t know what industry you’re in but I get 3-4 PDF’s a week.

freefriedrice 6y ago

Preview can't digitally sign PDFs. I have to do this on a near daily basis. EDIT: I mean sign with a certificate, not add an image. Personally I would prefer to not have any adobe software on my mac.

sqs 6y ago
By "digitally sign", do you mean insert a picture of your handwritten signature? It can do that: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/digitally-sign-a-pdf-using-preview-on-mac/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/digitally-sign-a-pdf-using-.... If you mean cryptographically sign, then disregard my comment.
- freefriedrice 6y ago
  Yeah, the latter: keychain certificate (under "Certificates").
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  This lack of differentiation really grinds my gears. Why in the world do both of these activities share a name? It would be really interesting to take a random sample of the population and ask them some basic context like their occupation/education, and ask them whether a digital signature comprises a graphic of handwriting (validated with eyeballs) or something more sophisticated (validated with math). There will be some obvious trends, but I suspect there will also be some surprises.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    The point of a signature is to affirm the authenticity of something. When you sign something by hand, you're showing that you reviewed it. If you cryptographically sign something, you're doing the same thing to a bunch of bits, and arguably in a way that's a less easy to forge.
  - freefriedrice 6y ago
    You're referring to "term overloading". This is pervasive throughout all domains of engineering, but more so in software because there are so many conflicting standards, definitions and citations. It's really hard to get a handle on. Like, I would assume that posting on HN the audience would assume I would not confuse "overlaying pixels of my signature on a document," with, say ECDSA sign & verify. But I was wrong to assume that. So, barring a common definition, should we speak with increased precision thus verbosity? Perhaps. But if THIS example grinds your gears, hooo boy, hang of for a ride.... :)

reaperducer 6y ago

The good news is, unlike Windows, macOS has a fantastic default PDF viewer ("Preview") and I don't know why anyone would ever install Acrobat on it I, too, prefer Preview to Acrobat. But part of my workflow occasionally involves copying text from a PDF to create a web page. Preview cannot be counted on to reliably or accurately copy that text. It seems to have particular problems with the letter "f" when next to a letter "s," in addition to other flaws. Acrobat, on the other hand, always copies the text correctly. Aside from this one use, however, I always employ Preview because otherwise it is far superior.

PhantomGremlin 6y ago
It seems to have particular problems with the letter "f" when next to a letter "s," in addition to other flaws. That's such a weird bug. I wonder if Preview is trying to be too cute with "less common" stylistic ligatures. Try some of the other ones mentioned in Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_ligature#Stylistic_ligatures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_ligature#Stylisti...

b3kart 6y ago

Because PDFs in Preview are blurry on external screens ever since Sierra. Acrobat works fine. I hate most third-party PDF viewers, but here we are.

macintux 6y ago
That’s...odd. I’ve never noticed it, and I’m viewing an AWS user guide right now on a 4K display (MacBook Pro, Mojave) with no crispness issues.
- b3kart 6y ago
  > 4K display That’s your answer. Apple being Apple either have no lower-res screens to test on, or once again have decided to force the industry forward.
  - macintux 6y ago
    This page may help. https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-macos-mojave-with-subpixel-antialiasing/ https://www.howtogeek.com/358596/how-to-fix-blurry-fonts-on-...
    - b3kart 6y ago
      Thanks. I’ve tried about a million different tricks at the time, none of which worked. I’ve given up on it. There has been a Twitter thread by an Apple engineer which I won’t be able to locate now, but the crux was that they know they’re breaking things for non-4K screens, but they don’t care enough/don’t have the resources (lol) to fix that.

thefounder 6y ago

Preview doesn't support a lot of stuff such dynamic forms. Most of the gov documents I need to sign are not displayed in preview.

muizelaar 6y ago

PDFs with XFA forms are not supported by Preview

NoSorryCannot 6y ago

Windows uses Edge IIRC, and it does pretty well.

GloriousKoji 6y ago
It does a decent job for heavily text based pdfs like legal forms or manuals and even lets you annotate the document with a pen or highlighter but it chokes on more image based pdfs like slide decks or schematics.
worble 6y ago
Old Edge was a great PDF reader and EPUB viewer. New edge... well it's just the same as Chrome, which is to say that it's fine.

ant6n 6y ago

To fill out government forms.

bootlooped 6y ago

I really like Firefox's built in PDF viewer. It even shows the table of contents where available.

hnick 6y ago
Yes it's pretty good. I actually used PDF.js to debug a malformed issue at work once. The javascript console error log gave a clue about the issue where no other tools said anything.
kccqzy 6y ago
So does Preview. So does Acrobat Reader.

softwaredoug 6y ago

Preview is such a great app. For simple image editing too... I used to have to get gimp to crop, rotate, and resize images, preview does the task simply and well.

karatestomp 6y ago
It seems crazy, but Preview is genuinely a big part of keeping me stuck in the Apple ecosystem. That iOS doesn't have anything like it is the main thing keeping me from ditching macOS for iOS (+ remote Linux VMs), even. It's a sign of how crap the UX is or has become on Windows or Linux that it's so surprising to have a basic utility program function so reliably, so well, and with such light resource use, while consistently delighting with its versatility. I have similar feelings about their office suite. In general their add-on and utility software is just great. I'd miss all of it on any other platform (and do, when I use those—yes, even the file manager, which is still less crashy, less prone to weird interface bugginess, and more consistent than any featureful equivalent I've used on Linux, and I've used... oh, all the big ones, over the last 20 years, and I don't find it any worse than Windows Explorer, aside from preferring some of the latter's hotkeys) but of all of them... yeah, Preview may be #1, which was not something I expected when I first started using OSX/macOS about 10 years ago.
neurostimulant 6y ago
Yeah, preview for simple annotation or cropping, photopea for heavier tasks. I haven't installed 3rd party photo editors in years.

riffic 6y ago

as far as I know the macOS display subsystem was built around the PDF specification. You'd think the OS can handle viewing documents without much additional third-party overhead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_2D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_2D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)#Use_of_PDF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)#Use_of...

Someone 6y ago
It uses the same drawing primitives as PDF, but it certainly isn’t built around the PDF specification, which is enormous. To give a few examples, there is no JavaScript interpreter in Quartz (https://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html https://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html), nor does it have 3D graphics rendering built in (https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/displaying-3d-models-pdfs.html https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/displaying-3d-models-p...), or a Flash engine (https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/flash-player-needed-acrobat-reader.html; https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/flash-player-needed-ac... this has bee removed from the Acrobat install, but used to ship with it) To support PDFs fully, all of that would have to be implemented on top of Quartz.

sahaskatta 6y ago

Windows 10 has had a built in PDF viewer for at least 5 years. It's the Edge browser which is now based on Chromium. You can sign and save documents too.

chapium 6y ago
It still can't form fill. Edge's pdf viewer is definitely a lot more pleasant to use than anything else I've used.

devy 6y ago

Redaction, for one, is a desired feature that don't usually come with free PDF viewers on macOS like Preview.

fortran77 6y ago

Windows has a default PDF viewer that works very well. Try it!

barbs 6y ago

A good open-source PDF reader I've used in the past on Windows is Sumatra. Very lightweight and functional. https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html

interestica 6y ago
Def check out Xodo PDF reader. It's been my favourite in terms of speed/functionality. It has been the best for use on Win10 touch screen.

hnick 6y ago

As a general rule, Acrobat ignores and silently fixes a lot of issues with PDFs that more stricter implementations will complain about (it goes beyond the spec to be accommodating). This unfortunately means a lot of programs out there are making malformed PDFs but their users don't know because "it works here on Acrobat!". So that's one reason I have to install it despite alternatives on Windows, but maybe Preview is the same in this regard and fine for general users.

mapgrep 6y ago

You buy Acrobat DC the impacted product because you’re using it as more than a reader. OCR image to text (laying the text invisibly within the pdf as metadata behind the image) is a common use case. Slim down a bloated pdf eg that came out of a scanner driver. Properly redact sensitive information (legal, govt, journalism context). The software is flawed even beyond security issues but for creating or editing PDF files there is not much competition. (There is some and I’ve used that too and it’s mostly worse. It’s a hard problem apparently.)

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interestica 6y ago

If you're on Win10, the Xodo PDF app is the best/fastest - and it allows editing and page order changes. And it's free. And it's a dream to use on a touch screen. Trying to open the same high quality/density PDFs in Adobe (even just the reader) is an unresponsive nightmare. I don't even understand how there can be such a significant difference in performance when Adobe created the format....

clircle 6y ago
That's interesting. I've been using SumatraPDF for years. I might give this a try.