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> My best friend at a FAANG always tells me he dreads having to look for a job ever again - whether voluntarily or involuntarily, as he is in no way shape or fo

by ar_lan 6y ago

> My best friend at a FAANG always tells me he dreads having to look for a job ever again - whether voluntarily or involuntarily, as he is in no way shape or form ready for coding interviews. I resonate to this, coding interviews significantly annoy me. I'm a significantly better developer than I was 5 years ago, but I would have passed so many interviews 5 years ago that now I wouldn't remember where to begin, and that's because I studied relentlessly for interviews. My second to last semester of college I focused so much more on studying for interviews than my own classes, that I had the spreadsheets to make sure I would just get my C's just to ensure I could nail interviews. I did well in almost all of my interviews, and my grades completely stopped mattering. Right now, if I practiced leetcode daily, I'd think it would interfere with my work. I don't want to do it on my free time as I actually enjoy a work/life balance. I love my job, I'll study when I have to, but until that day comes I'm going to focus on becoming the best engineer I can be and continue bringing value where I'm at. Tech interviews need to change - they just reward people who studied for the points, not a true representation of who would be a great engineer for their company/team. Similar to how high school overwhelmingly rewards "passing the test" more than active learning.

esoterica 6y ago
I feel like there should be a decent correlation between being willing to put in effort into interviewing to progress in your career and being willing to put in effort into doing your job to progress in your career, so it makes sense for companies to select on the former trait. Also, if someone refuses to spend a few dozen hours practicing leetcode to get a 6 figure pay rise then either there is something seriously wrong with their work ethic or they like to pick stupid hills to die on. Red flag? I don't understand why people complain about leetcode so much when it's such a low bar to clear. A lot of people want $400k/year jobs at Goldman, but Goldman won't hire you unless you went to Harvard or Wharton. Shouldn't people be glad that they work in an industry where the only barrier standing between them and a $400k/year Facebook job is a few hours of interview practice?
- arvinsim 6y ago
  Your argument make sense if only high paying companies do leetcode interviews. I think a lot of small and mid size companies are cargo culting on it too.
- decafninja 6y ago
  I both agree and disagree with this. I am thankful that there is a "meritocratic" way of getting into these top companies. But I don't agree grinding leetcode is the way to measure such merit. I definitely don't agree that it's "just a few (or even a few dozen) hours" to prepare or that it's a low bar. That said, I've come to terms with leetcode and coding interviews in general. If I ran a company or if I was a hiring manager with clout, I'd never hire people in such a way. But that's the current state of the game, and short of becoming the 99% shareholder of Google overnight, there is nothing I nor most people can do to change a thing. So might as well play the game and try to win it, instead of just whining about it. The irony is, I enjoy solving leetcode problems now. It's actually become my hobby - since all my free time outside of family is consumed by studying for interviews. But I don't enjoy whiteboarding hyperoptimal leetcode solutions under 45-minute interview pressure.
  - esoterica 6y ago
    > But I don't agree grinding leetcode is the way to measure such merit. I think it's a much better way of measuring merit than people give it credit for. It measures a mix of problem solving ability and work ethic (it's not purely about innate skill, you can get much better at it through practice so it's also a test of whether you're willing to work for career advancement), both of which are probably things you want to hire for. You can also easily ratchet the difficulty of these things up or down depending on how selective you want to be when hiring. People complain about how "unrealistic" leetcode problems are but there's no intrinsic reason why the interview has to exactly replicate the job, it just has to be correlated with traits that are useful for the job.
    - decafninja 6y ago
      But what about...actually doing good at your job? Yes, you can BS about your actual job and accomplishments, hence why coding interviews supposedly exist. I acknowledge that. But then - why do anything more than the bare minimum at your job to get by while devoting the rest of your time (including any downtime during your job's working hours) to study leetcode for interviews instead? At least until you get into an "endgame company" - FAANG or otherwise, where you feel comfortable staying a while. Disclaimer: I actually do this to a certain extent - and I am not proud of it. In fact I am downright ashamed of it and angry at myself. It completely goes against my ethos of being the best engineer and best professional I can be. Which is how I worked when I was younger and more naive. But excelling above and beyond at my real, actual, work, will not get me anywhere, at least where I am now. I want to get into such an "endgame company" so that I can do my best work again.

by ar_lan 6y ago

esoterica 6y ago

I feel like there should be a decent correlation between being willing to put in effort into interviewing to progress in your career and being willing to put in effort into doing your job to progress in your career, so it makes sense for companies to select on the former trait. Also, if someone refuses to spend a few dozen hours practicing leetcode to get a 6 figure pay rise then either there is something seriously wrong with their work ethic or they like to pick stupid hills to die on. Red flag? I don't understand why people complain about leetcode so much when it's such a low bar to clear. A lot of people want $400k/year jobs at Goldman, but Goldman won't hire you unless you went to Harvard or Wharton. Shouldn't people be glad that they work in an industry where the only barrier standing between them and a $400k/year Facebook job is a few hours of interview practice?

arvinsim 6y ago
Your argument make sense if only high paying companies do leetcode interviews. I think a lot of small and mid size companies are cargo culting on it too.
decafninja 6y ago
I both agree and disagree with this. I am thankful that there is a "meritocratic" way of getting into these top companies. But I don't agree grinding leetcode is the way to measure such merit. I definitely don't agree that it's "just a few (or even a few dozen) hours" to prepare or that it's a low bar. That said, I've come to terms with leetcode and coding interviews in general. If I ran a company or if I was a hiring manager with clout, I'd never hire people in such a way. But that's the current state of the game, and short of becoming the 99% shareholder of Google overnight, there is nothing I nor most people can do to change a thing. So might as well play the game and try to win it, instead of just whining about it. The irony is, I enjoy solving leetcode problems now. It's actually become my hobby - since all my free time outside of family is consumed by studying for interviews. But I don't enjoy whiteboarding hyperoptimal leetcode solutions under 45-minute interview pressure.
- esoterica 6y ago
  > But I don't agree grinding leetcode is the way to measure such merit. I think it's a much better way of measuring merit than people give it credit for. It measures a mix of problem solving ability and work ethic (it's not purely about innate skill, you can get much better at it through practice so it's also a test of whether you're willing to work for career advancement), both of which are probably things you want to hire for. You can also easily ratchet the difficulty of these things up or down depending on how selective you want to be when hiring. People complain about how "unrealistic" leetcode problems are but there's no intrinsic reason why the interview has to exactly replicate the job, it just has to be correlated with traits that are useful for the job.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    But what about...actually doing good at your job? Yes, you can BS about your actual job and accomplishments, hence why coding interviews supposedly exist. I acknowledge that. But then - why do anything more than the bare minimum at your job to get by while devoting the rest of your time (including any downtime during your job's working hours) to study leetcode for interviews instead? At least until you get into an "endgame company" - FAANG or otherwise, where you feel comfortable staying a while. Disclaimer: I actually do this to a certain extent - and I am not proud of it. In fact I am downright ashamed of it and angry at myself. It completely goes against my ethos of being the best engineer and best professional I can be. Which is how I worked when I was younger and more naive. But excelling above and beyond at my real, actual, work, will not get me anywhere, at least where I am now. I want to get into such an "endgame company" so that I can do my best work again.