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As I read some women in the article are making as much as a talented ivy league graduate who joins a tech company. It seems amoral to prevent them from making

As I read some women in the article are making as much as a talented ivy league graduate who joins a tech company. It seems amoral to prevent them from making money, why don't we see it as a talent as we see "tech jobs" as talent? Can it really do more damage than what tech companies specially one who pedal ads and sell customer data and give people anxiety?

jbob2000 6y ago
The message this sends to girls is that if you’re pretty, this is the easiest way to make a lot of money. It damages the work of people who have spent decades trying to get women to be valued for things other than their bodies.
- ausbah 6y ago
  I think the message of telling a person what is and isn't acceptable behavior based only on their gender / sex does nothing but reinforce harmful stereotypes and expectations
- gaze 6y ago
  This says more about the relationship between value and money than it does about what is or isn't valuable.
- haunter 6y ago
  Thats incredibly patronizing
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Men often do physical labor, something which they are on average physiologically better at. We don't discourage them from doing that because we "only value men for their bodies".
  - kanox 6y ago
    Physical labor is very commonly looked down upon.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Not in the way that sex work is.
- KittenInABox 6y ago
  Looking pretty can be a lot of work.
- michaelbrave 6y ago
  I once heard something from someone I never want to agree with but it was a decent point. If intelligence is part of the biological lottery and we value it as an employer for all the advantages it could bring your business, then it's fair to think that someone who is attractive has won a similar genetic lottery and it could bring similar benefits to your business. It's something I want to disagree with, except I can see that there is more truth to it than not, even if it goes against what I believe the world should be.
  - justwalt 6y ago
    I think it’s a good point, and not one I’d considered. But there’s a large lead lead time required to hone intelligence in school or by other means that it doesn’t account for.
GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
Sex work is work all the same. From a normative standpoint, we ought to support sex workers directly, rather than the studios and production companies that are often exploitative. OnlyFans seems to get rid of the middlemen in the porn / cam girl industry, I think that's a massive benefit for sex workers today.
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines.
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    Any blurring of moral lines likely comes down to hangups W.R.T Body Autonomy. At the end of the day, if you one believes that everyone is allowed to make their own choices about their body, that would have to include their daughter, their spouse, their mother even.
    - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
      Exactly! You get it. I find it so hard to believe that there is supposedly zero overlap between HackerNews comment posters claiming "there is nothing morally wrong with sex work" and people who in reality when pressed with the exact situation would say "I am against my little sister performing sexual acts for money"
      - Mirioron 6y ago
        I think most drugs should be legalized, but I would still be against my little sister doing meth. That's how I see this situation too. People obviously should be allowed to do sex work, but I think that there are hidden costs that are difficult to understand beforehand. I wouldn't bar her from it but I would discourage it.
      - 6y ago
gotoeleven 6y ago
I think the new world of normalized prostitution is going to be great and healthy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway_6969 6y ago
  It's been normalized a long time ago. For women, using dating apps like Tinder is akin to a guy browsing through an escort service website, choosing the hottest escort he can find... with the only difference that the guy ends up paying (in both cases!). And in our "modern" and "progressive" culture I guess it's empowering for a woman to sleep with hundreds of men until she decides to settle down with some simp.
- warranty 6y ago
  How many of us would be comfortable married to an onlyfans artist who makes 10x money than us working from the bedroom. I don’t think such relationships will last.
lovegoblin 6y ago
> why don't we see it as a talent as we see "tech jobs" as talent? Good damned question. Sex work is work.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
sometw 6y ago
I'll bite and talk about the subject, since I've been involved in that community as both a buyer and sort-of-seller (Helped a ManyVids star rise to the top 20 in their category with feedback, strategy and ehem... 'collaborations' but I'll get back to that) I don't find sex work in and of itself immoral. That is of course an opinion. On the other hand... It's another subculture in and of itself. And unfortunately, it's a subculture that often rewards immoral behavior and/or pulls people down dark paths. From the buying side, It's been interesting to see the different ways that sellers behave. The ways some of them cut corners and/or 'lightly cheat' clients is questionable. The worst form I've experienced is when you make a larger services purchase and it become obvious over the session that you just supported some bad chemical habit of theirs. But I've also had sellers try to cheat the clock. And I've had MULTIPLE sellers violate my consent in hypnosis sessions. But perhaps worst was initiating a relationship with a seller for 2 years, only to discover that she had a boyfriend (now fiance) out of state in med school. That's the one I collaborated with, turned out that I was really helping someone who lived in a guilded cage buy more toys for her, NOT helping her make ends meet. And now, I live in constant worry that she'll start distributing the videos we made again. They were made such that they JUST fall out of my state's classification of Revenge porn. Perfect example of an Immoral seller. When COVID broke out she immediately started e-begging, claiming that she couldn't make her car payments (which I knew was a lie on multiple levels.) And yet, less than a month later she's posting more fancy outfits, gadgets, etc. that she's purchased. From the seller's perspective: - You get scammers too. - You're living on the edge of acceptable behavior. If you're not using a payment service that approves of your work, One properly targeted set of emails from a disgruntled customer could lead to any uncollected money. - You have to be -very- careful about your online life. Lots of sellers keep their real life online profiles as locked down as possible, lest someone find their real identity via image search algos. - You get a lot of people who will either waste your time, troll, or outright harass you. Which, if anything is what concerns me about the business as a whole. Someone else on HN pointed out in another thread that once you perform one bad act, many times you have to perform another bad act to cover up the first. I've watched sellers go from kind to cruel after going through the industry for a while. It does change people, and not for the better.
- newbie789 6y ago
argonaut 6y ago
The primary argument against legalization (or normalization) of sex work is that it leads to increased human trafficking and organized crime. There actually is some evidence to back this up, but I wouldn't call the debate settled.

jbob2000 6y ago

The message this sends to girls is that if you’re pretty, this is the easiest way to make a lot of money. It damages the work of people who have spent decades trying to get women to be valued for things other than their bodies.

ausbah 6y ago
I think the message of telling a person what is and isn't acceptable behavior based only on their gender / sex does nothing but reinforce harmful stereotypes and expectations
gaze 6y ago
This says more about the relationship between value and money than it does about what is or isn't valuable.
haunter 6y ago
Thats incredibly patronizing
saagarjha 6y ago
Men often do physical labor, something which they are on average physiologically better at. We don't discourage them from doing that because we "only value men for their bodies".
- kanox 6y ago
  Physical labor is very commonly looked down upon.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Not in the way that sex work is.
KittenInABox 6y ago
Looking pretty can be a lot of work.
michaelbrave 6y ago
I once heard something from someone I never want to agree with but it was a decent point. If intelligence is part of the biological lottery and we value it as an employer for all the advantages it could bring your business, then it's fair to think that someone who is attractive has won a similar genetic lottery and it could bring similar benefits to your business. It's something I want to disagree with, except I can see that there is more truth to it than not, even if it goes against what I believe the world should be.
- justwalt 6y ago
  I think it’s a good point, and not one I’d considered. But there’s a large lead lead time required to hone intelligence in school or by other means that it doesn’t account for.

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago

Sex work is work all the same. From a normative standpoint, we ought to support sex workers directly, rather than the studios and production companies that are often exploitative. OnlyFans seems to get rid of the middlemen in the porn / cam girl industry, I think that's a massive benefit for sex workers today.

MuffinFlavored 6y ago
My question to most people on this forum are: would you really be ok if your daughter was best friends with a sex worker? Everybody says "of course!" in theory... but in reality I think it falls apart. Lots of blurred moral lines.
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  Any blurring of moral lines likely comes down to hangups W.R.T Body Autonomy. At the end of the day, if you one believes that everyone is allowed to make their own choices about their body, that would have to include their daughter, their spouse, their mother even.
  - MuffinFlavored 6y ago
    Exactly! You get it. I find it so hard to believe that there is supposedly zero overlap between HackerNews comment posters claiming "there is nothing morally wrong with sex work" and people who in reality when pressed with the exact situation would say "I am against my little sister performing sexual acts for money"
    - Mirioron 6y ago
      I think most drugs should be legalized, but I would still be against my little sister doing meth. That's how I see this situation too. People obviously should be allowed to do sex work, but I think that there are hidden costs that are difficult to understand beforehand. I wouldn't bar her from it but I would discourage it.
    - 6y ago

gotoeleven 6y ago

I think the new world of normalized prostitution is going to be great and healthy.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
throwaway_6969 6y ago
It's been normalized a long time ago. For women, using dating apps like Tinder is akin to a guy browsing through an escort service website, choosing the hottest escort he can find... with the only difference that the guy ends up paying (in both cases!). And in our "modern" and "progressive" culture I guess it's empowering for a woman to sleep with hundreds of men until she decides to settle down with some simp.
warranty 6y ago
How many of us would be comfortable married to an onlyfans artist who makes 10x money than us working from the bedroom. I don’t think such relationships will last.

lovegoblin 6y ago

> why don't we see it as a talent as we see "tech jobs" as talent? Good damned question. Sex work is work.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sometw 6y ago

I'll bite and talk about the subject, since I've been involved in that community as both a buyer and sort-of-seller (Helped a ManyVids star rise to the top 20 in their category with feedback, strategy and ehem... 'collaborations' but I'll get back to that) I don't find sex work in and of itself immoral. That is of course an opinion. On the other hand... It's another subculture in and of itself. And unfortunately, it's a subculture that often rewards immoral behavior and/or pulls people down dark paths. From the buying side, It's been interesting to see the different ways that sellers behave. The ways some of them cut corners and/or 'lightly cheat' clients is questionable. The worst form I've experienced is when you make a larger services purchase and it become obvious over the session that you just supported some bad chemical habit of theirs. But I've also had sellers try to cheat the clock. And I've had MULTIPLE sellers violate my consent in hypnosis sessions. But perhaps worst was initiating a relationship with a seller for 2 years, only to discover that she had a boyfriend (now fiance) out of state in med school. That's the one I collaborated with, turned out that I was really helping someone who lived in a guilded cage buy more toys for her, NOT helping her make ends meet. And now, I live in constant worry that she'll start distributing the videos we made again. They were made such that they JUST fall out of my state's classification of Revenge porn. Perfect example of an Immoral seller. When COVID broke out she immediately started e-begging, claiming that she couldn't make her car payments (which I knew was a lie on multiple levels.) And yet, less than a month later she's posting more fancy outfits, gadgets, etc. that she's purchased. From the seller's perspective: - You get scammers too. - You're living on the edge of acceptable behavior. If you're not using a payment service that approves of your work, One properly targeted set of emails from a disgruntled customer could lead to any uncollected money. - You have to be -very- careful about your online life. Lots of sellers keep their real life online profiles as locked down as possible, lest someone find their real identity via image search algos. - You get a lot of people who will either waste your time, troll, or outright harass you. Which, if anything is what concerns me about the business as a whole. Someone else on HN pointed out in another thread that once you perform one bad act, many times you have to perform another bad act to cover up the first. I've watched sellers go from kind to cruel after going through the industry for a while. It does change people, and not for the better.

newbie789 6y ago

argonaut 6y ago

The primary argument against legalization (or normalization) of sex work is that it leads to increased human trafficking and organized crime. There actually is some evidence to back this up, but I wouldn't call the debate settled.