4 ms·

Surprised that Google didn't take proper pre-cautions here to not run into this. If there is indeed such an identifier, enabled by default its pretty obvious t

by kerng 6y ago

Surprised that Google didn't take proper pre-cautions here to not run into this. If there is indeed such an identifier, enabled by default its pretty obvious that its technically possible to track a user. And with all the other data Google has, they also can link to the actual identity pretty easily.

JadeNB 6y ago
Surely it's easier for Google to ask forgiveness than permission. Why wouldn't they do this if they want to track you, especially if they can muster even a shred of plausible deniability to allow them to keep it in place longer?
- thoraway1010 6y ago
  Plausible deniability? They put it there so you can be tracked - that is what it is for. Have you confirmed that the click through agreements and privacy policies don't mention anything like this?
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    > Have you confirmed that the click through agreements and privacy policies don't mention anything like this? No …? I'm not sure why I would have; I was just responding to @kerng's surprise at its presence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23180801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23180801).
- PeterisP 6y ago
  It's not easier to ask forgiveness than permission - asking permission is free but having to 'ask forgiveness' under GDPR if you've intentionally not asked permission may involve fines up to 4% of annual global turnover which comes out to something like 6 billion dollars for google.
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    It is easier, at least in the short term, because it gets right away to that tracking sweetness. It might be regretted in the long term, although global companies don't seem to be taking GDPR seriously yet, probably because they don't sufficiently fear the enforcing bodies. (Let's see those consent walls come down first.) In the meantime, who knows how much Google made off the tracking information that they got this way?
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
There is no if ! https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/android/gms/ads/identifier/AdvertisingIdClient https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/a... https://support.google.com/admanager/answer/6274238?hl=en https://support.google.com/admanager/answer/6274238?hl=en
izacus 6y ago
The identifier itself it made to track the user by 3rd party apps, so it's pretty clear why its there :) Apple provides the exact same API - https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport/asidentifiermanager https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport/asidenti... although IIRC it manages it better (users can revoke it, but it's on by default). I wonder why Google is singled out here though - if Apple is also mining our data, they should also be on the hook. I wonder if all other OS vendors could be fined as well because the OSes are full of tracking identifiers - device MACs, device install identifiers, serial numbers, etc. There's plenty of apps out there that use those identifiers to track user behaviour.
- greglindahl 6y ago
  Apple's identifier can't be turned off; you can manually change it as often as you like, but it involves enough clicks that I bet few people do.
  - gingerlime 6y ago
    It can be turned off (although I think under the hood they just send zeros). But it’s on by default. https://blog.gingerlime.com/2020/does-apple-care-about-your-privacy/ https://blog.gingerlime.com/2020/does-apple-care-about-your-... EDIT also https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074
    - als0 6y ago
      I don't interpret "Limit Ad Tracking" as "off". As another comment mentioned, the only effective mechanism is to reset the identifier periodically. That's not a disable mechanism, though.
      - weswpg 6y ago
        > When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking. Shouldn't that be enough?
m463 6y ago
if you posit that google is an identification service, and they have lots of machine learning experts... why can't google train a neural net on each person they've gathered data on and track them using a custom model?

by kerng 6y ago

JadeNB 6y ago

Surely it's easier for Google to ask forgiveness than permission. Why wouldn't they do this if they want to track you, especially if they can muster even a shred of plausible deniability to allow them to keep it in place longer?

thoraway1010 6y ago
Plausible deniability? They put it there so you can be tracked - that is what it is for. Have you confirmed that the click through agreements and privacy policies don't mention anything like this?
- JadeNB 6y ago
  > Have you confirmed that the click through agreements and privacy policies don't mention anything like this? No …? I'm not sure why I would have; I was just responding to @kerng's surprise at its presence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23180801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23180801).
PeterisP 6y ago
It's not easier to ask forgiveness than permission - asking permission is free but having to 'ask forgiveness' under GDPR if you've intentionally not asked permission may involve fines up to 4% of annual global turnover which comes out to something like 6 billion dollars for google.
- JadeNB 6y ago
  It is easier, at least in the short term, because it gets right away to that tracking sweetness. It might be regretted in the long term, although global companies don't seem to be taking GDPR seriously yet, probably because they don't sufficiently fear the enforcing bodies. (Let's see those consent walls come down first.) In the meantime, who knows how much Google made off the tracking information that they got this way?

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

There is no if ! https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/android/gms/ads/identifier/AdvertisingIdClient https://developers.google.com/android/reference/com/google/a... https://support.google.com/admanager/answer/6274238?hl=en https://support.google.com/admanager/answer/6274238?hl=en

izacus 6y ago

The identifier itself it made to track the user by 3rd party apps, so it's pretty clear why its there :) Apple provides the exact same API - https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport/asidentifiermanager https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport/asidenti... although IIRC it manages it better (users can revoke it, but it's on by default). I wonder why Google is singled out here though - if Apple is also mining our data, they should also be on the hook. I wonder if all other OS vendors could be fined as well because the OSes are full of tracking identifiers - device MACs, device install identifiers, serial numbers, etc. There's plenty of apps out there that use those identifiers to track user behaviour.

greglindahl 6y ago
Apple's identifier can't be turned off; you can manually change it as often as you like, but it involves enough clicks that I bet few people do.
- gingerlime 6y ago
  It can be turned off (although I think under the hood they just send zeros). But it’s on by default. https://blog.gingerlime.com/2020/does-apple-care-about-your-privacy/ https://blog.gingerlime.com/2020/does-apple-care-about-your-... EDIT also https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074
  - als0 6y ago
    I don't interpret "Limit Ad Tracking" as "off". As another comment mentioned, the only effective mechanism is to reset the identifier periodically. That's not a disable mechanism, though.
    - weswpg 6y ago
      > When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking. Shouldn't that be enough?

m463 6y ago

if you posit that google is an identification service, and they have lots of machine learning experts... why can't google train a neural net on each person they've gathered data on and track them using a custom model?