4 ms·

Well, not to strip naked on the internet. There was a great paper that came out recently demonstrating the value of men's sexuality is negative (vs that of wome

by vbtemp 6y ago

Well, not to strip naked on the internet. There was a great paper that came out recently demonstrating the value of men's sexuality is negative (vs that of women). Men don't possess anything intrinsically valuable or desirable. There is no fallback. I too wonder what this will mean for (young) men, who have already been pushed down a dark path.

vzidex 6y ago
We know already where it heads - to young men being radicalized to hate everyone who isn't like them (i.e. not young, male, angry, usually white, usually straight).
- generalpass 6y ago
  I observe this to be a narrative that many are pushing, but I don't see it anywhere IRL or even the proverbial data. I suspect they just fall out of statistics and into depression.
  - vzidex 6y ago
    Anecdotally, I see it in lots of places - I was a part of those types of communities when I was younger (I'm better now, and I _think_ I'm reasonably well-adjusted), but I still keep tabs on those corners of the internet so I know what's going on, and can be prepared if/when they bubble over in a meaningful way. I see lots of hateful activity, from "boogaloo" groups that hide their violence fetish behind euphemisms and jokes about revolution, to "satirical" posts about the value of white identity and culture over other cultures and races. The other day I came across a website whose purpose was to collect the full names and photographs of (white) women who date outside their race - specifically, women who date black men - and the (white) men who date women like that. Said site has a section dedicated to women who were hurt or killed by their partners, and labels those women those who "paid their toll" for dating outside their race. I haven't seen any meaningful action by any of these groups except that website I mentioned, but the activity is there if you care to find it. It's something that worries me, specifically for my partner - who is a woman of colour.
    - asguy 6y ago
      If we’re thinking of the same thing (related to ‘coal’) thats looking like it’s a 4chan troll site.
      - vzidex 6y ago
        Yes, we're thinking of the same website. I've been around on 4chan long enough to know that "troll" most often is equivalent to what the site really feels, or at least some of the people on there. The "troll" or "satire" label is only there to try to evoke plausible deniability - as in the case of "for legal purposes my call for violence against this person is a joke". i.e. the sorts of people - in general - who browse the more unsavory parts of 4chan/8chan/etc are very fond of their dogwhistles.
        asguy 6y ago
        The way I read it, 4chan is like a concentrated version of what it was like to be a teenager at the edge of society. You stir the pot and feed off the energy that people respond with. If you live in a Christian conservative community, you leave pamphlets full of gay porn outside church. In a progressive community, you make racist websites about interracial dating. They aren’t pro gay porn or pro racism, they’re pro getting a reaction out of people, that they find hilarious. We encourage them with our outrage.
        generalpass 6y ago
        5 males aged 13-15 with basic self-taught networking skillz could wreak a huge amount of havoc such that it would throw off observations that are based on web activity. It is one of the reasons that anecdotal observations of online behaviors I consider to approach zero value, with some exceptions. And, obviously, a lot of those kids are older and still engaging the same juvenile behaviors.
        diffrinse 6y ago
        "4chan is like a concentrated version of what it was like to be a teenager at the edge of society" Which teenagers and which edge of society, I'm fairly certain they're not all the same. Also your post is what every reader of 4chan says when the discussion comes up.
  - freefriedrice 6y ago
    Narrative? Yes yes, because 99.9% of white christian american terrorists are women. /s Were you born today?
    - dang 6y ago
      If you keep posting like this to HN we will have to ban you again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.
- liamcardenas 6y ago
  This would’ve been a good comment if you had left out the part in the parentheses. I’d say it’s more of a class thing. They will be angry at the the ruling class and wealthy. I don’t think they are going to be taking it out on old ladies...
  - vzidex 6y ago
    That's what you'd hope for, but in practice that's not what I'm seeing. The anger I see online is directed at politicians in some cases - but usually for said politicians supporting social programs, pro-immigration policies, and anti-gun policies. In the rest of cases, anger is indeed directed at LGBTQ+ people - especially towards trans people - people of color - especially blacks, and increasingly Asians - and women - especially those who are viewed as "promiscuous".
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - boatmeal 6y ago
      This is entirely due to a weird filter bubble you've created for yourself. You're focused on the 0.01% of people lurking on 4chan and not the mainstream news media which always come from a worldview assuming the wealthy are evil, men are evil and white people are evil and that all inequalities in the world are due to these evil people getting something at the expense of others and calling for more and more policies to harm this group to give more power and wealth to others.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    Eh, I think it's a decent label. Individuals belonging to a social group with a presumption of power (in many western contexts, white men) tend to behave as described above. Individuals belonging to groups with low presumptions of power just tend to be problematic within their own community. You don't see many long lasting violent weak minority supremacy groups.
maximente 6y ago
link to paper please if available online?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by vbtemp 6y ago

vzidex 6y ago

We know already where it heads - to young men being radicalized to hate everyone who isn't like them (i.e. not young, male, angry, usually white, usually straight).

generalpass 6y ago
I observe this to be a narrative that many are pushing, but I don't see it anywhere IRL or even the proverbial data. I suspect they just fall out of statistics and into depression.
- vzidex 6y ago
  Anecdotally, I see it in lots of places - I was a part of those types of communities when I was younger (I'm better now, and I _think_ I'm reasonably well-adjusted), but I still keep tabs on those corners of the internet so I know what's going on, and can be prepared if/when they bubble over in a meaningful way. I see lots of hateful activity, from "boogaloo" groups that hide their violence fetish behind euphemisms and jokes about revolution, to "satirical" posts about the value of white identity and culture over other cultures and races. The other day I came across a website whose purpose was to collect the full names and photographs of (white) women who date outside their race - specifically, women who date black men - and the (white) men who date women like that. Said site has a section dedicated to women who were hurt or killed by their partners, and labels those women those who "paid their toll" for dating outside their race. I haven't seen any meaningful action by any of these groups except that website I mentioned, but the activity is there if you care to find it. It's something that worries me, specifically for my partner - who is a woman of colour.
  - asguy 6y ago
    If we’re thinking of the same thing (related to ‘coal’) thats looking like it’s a 4chan troll site.
    - vzidex 6y ago
      Yes, we're thinking of the same website. I've been around on 4chan long enough to know that "troll" most often is equivalent to what the site really feels, or at least some of the people on there. The "troll" or "satire" label is only there to try to evoke plausible deniability - as in the case of "for legal purposes my call for violence against this person is a joke". i.e. the sorts of people - in general - who browse the more unsavory parts of 4chan/8chan/etc are very fond of their dogwhistles.
      - asguy 6y ago
        The way I read it, 4chan is like a concentrated version of what it was like to be a teenager at the edge of society. You stir the pot and feed off the energy that people respond with. If you live in a Christian conservative community, you leave pamphlets full of gay porn outside church. In a progressive community, you make racist websites about interracial dating. They aren’t pro gay porn or pro racism, they’re pro getting a reaction out of people, that they find hilarious. We encourage them with our outrage.
        generalpass 6y ago
        5 males aged 13-15 with basic self-taught networking skillz could wreak a huge amount of havoc such that it would throw off observations that are based on web activity. It is one of the reasons that anecdotal observations of online behaviors I consider to approach zero value, with some exceptions. And, obviously, a lot of those kids are older and still engaging the same juvenile behaviors.
        diffrinse 6y ago
        "4chan is like a concentrated version of what it was like to be a teenager at the edge of society" Which teenagers and which edge of society, I'm fairly certain they're not all the same. Also your post is what every reader of 4chan says when the discussion comes up.
- freefriedrice 6y ago
  Narrative? Yes yes, because 99.9% of white christian american terrorists are women. /s Were you born today?
  - dang 6y ago
    If you keep posting like this to HN we will have to ban you again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.
liamcardenas 6y ago
This would’ve been a good comment if you had left out the part in the parentheses. I’d say it’s more of a class thing. They will be angry at the the ruling class and wealthy. I don’t think they are going to be taking it out on old ladies...
- vzidex 6y ago
  That's what you'd hope for, but in practice that's not what I'm seeing. The anger I see online is directed at politicians in some cases - but usually for said politicians supporting social programs, pro-immigration policies, and anti-gun policies. In the rest of cases, anger is indeed directed at LGBTQ+ people - especially towards trans people - people of color - especially blacks, and increasingly Asians - and women - especially those who are viewed as "promiscuous".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - boatmeal 6y ago
    This is entirely due to a weird filter bubble you've created for yourself. You're focused on the 0.01% of people lurking on 4chan and not the mainstream news media which always come from a worldview assuming the wealthy are evil, men are evil and white people are evil and that all inequalities in the world are due to these evil people getting something at the expense of others and calling for more and more policies to harm this group to give more power and wealth to others.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  Eh, I think it's a decent label. Individuals belonging to a social group with a presumption of power (in many western contexts, white men) tend to behave as described above. Individuals belonging to groups with low presumptions of power just tend to be problematic within their own community. You don't see many long lasting violent weak minority supremacy groups.

maximente 6y ago

link to paper please if available online?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]