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> [The sandwich company named] Subway required her to put her contact details on a contact-tracing form so as to place her food order. She didn’t think anything
by rckoepke 6y ago
> [The sandwich company named] Subway required her to put her contact details on a contact-tracing form so as to place her food order. She didn’t think anything about it: we all want to stop the spread of the pandemic, after all. The form asked for her name, home address, email address and phone number, all of which she put down.
I'm putting this here because some people may erroneously assume that this story is relevant to bluetooth/cellphone contact tracing.
- redis_mlc 6y ago> some people may erroneously assume that this story is relevant to bluetooth/cellphone contact tracing. Is it any better if Google, Apple and the govt will be doing the stalking?
- taneq 6y agoHopefully it's a little harder for a random Sandwich Artist to pick up your address via one of these apps than via a paper form that you fill out in front of them. That said, they have to be right in front of you to stalk you, they can't do it from California.
- opinologo 6y agoThere are also many reports about Google or Facebook employees abusing private data. In Permanent Record, Snowden explains how the NSA employees watch nudes stolen from regular citizens on a regular basis.
- pgeorgi 6y ago> many reports about Google or Facebook employees abusing private data. I'm sure you have a link or two handy?
- valuearb 6y agoThat is true but their have already been dozens of articles explaining how Apple/Google designed their contact tracing system to make it nearly impossible to be abused.
- DagAgren 6y agoYes, because they actually designed their system so that it can not be used for stalking. Go read up about it.
- dependenttypes 6y agoWell, they failed then, because it can definitely be used for stalking. Having covid and distributing your daily keys makes it much easier but not necessary.
- DagAgren 6y agoIf you have COVID you should not be distributing your daily keys, you should be staying the fuck inside.
- dependenttypes 6y agoCOVID can be asymptotic for long periods. This is the whole point for such systems to exist in the first place.
- DagAgren 6y agoYes, and you reveal your keys for the past when you are diagnosed, and then you go inside, stay inside, and do not reveal any further keys. This is not useful for stalking.
- dependenttypes 6y agoSure it is, you just need imagination. Say that you are a stalker, you (or someone delegated by you) passed near your target and got h(daykey, time), your target happens to go to the hospital for covid a while after, so you have the daykey of your target for multiple days and all of their h(day, time). You detect that it was your target that went into the hospital because one of their h(daykey, time) matches with the one that you have stored, in addition you know if your target passed nearby you/one of your friends/one of the locations where you have put some cheap bluetooth phones and the exact day and time that this happened. Intentionally infecting the target will covid will help this whole thing but it is not necessary.
- stetrain 6y agoYou should probably read up on how the Google and Apple system works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_/_Apple_contact_tracing_project#Technical_specification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_/_Apple_contact_tracing... My brief understanding: - No location data is used at all - Devices get random rolling identifiers that are shared with other devices when in close range (ie contact is made) - Devices keep a list of which identifiers they came in contact with in the past - If someone tests positive, their recently used random identifiers are published, and any devices with those identifiers in their list notify the user that they may have been in contact with someone who has now tested positive. If you can devise a non-magical way that a Google, Apple, or Subway employee could use that to personally stalk someone it would be quite an interesting whitepaper.
- dredmorbius 6y agoA widely distributed Bluetooth monitoring network noting tims and places ... might ... be able to correlate secrets with other data (facial recognition, MAC, UUID, etc.,) to correlate individual with probable SARS-COV-2 exposure status. An in-location tracking system, such as numerous proposed retail monitoring systems, among othe. Given time and location, a low number of hits would likely be sufficient. This would be expensive, but likely within reason for a motivated entity. Possibly by utilising (with or without cooperation) existing infrastructure and systems.
- stetrain 6y agoIf you have a widespread Bluetooth monitoring network with centralized data you've already built your stalking system that likely works better than trying to use the Google/Apple contact tracing system.
- dredmorbius 6y agoBut you've added Covid status detection as a capability. To what net advantage is unclear. Though yes, this shows the inherent risks of pervasive surveillance systems.
- 6y ago
- creaghpatr 6y agoAdding here also that the stalking in this article was of the personal harassment nature, not 'stalking' to contact them about potential COVID exposure. It would be a nuisance to have to sign in at restaurants, especially with a physical address.
- GavinMcG 6y agoThat's what "stalking" means. I sure hope no one's expanding the term to mean "contact tracing".
- creepyHomoDad 6y agoReally? What does "pedophilia" mean?
- ardy42 6y ago> I sure hope no one's expanding the term to mean "contact tracing". I think this guy just did downthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23179458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23179458
- dependenttypes 6y agoThis is not necessarily the case. I took it to mean that Google, Apple, and the govt all have employees, some of them rouge, just like subway.
- creaghpatr 6y agoIt confused me at first when I saw the headline.
- dontbenebby 6y ago>It would be a nuisance to have to sign in at restaurants, especially with a physical address. I have friends who carry a passport card because they've had unawanted contact from bouncers, bartenders etc. This type of incident is super common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Passport_Card#Card_layout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Passport_Card#Ca...
- valuearb 6y agoThis was also in New Zealand, where it appears to be required to be collected by the law (the article is unclear but references the public health commissioner explaining how it should be used).
- robocat 6y agoMany places just require you pay by card (not cash), since that is enough to trace someone if needed. Or preorder online. Techniques vary.
- kanox 6y agoI'm disappointed that the "sandwich server" is a person who serves sandwiches.
- chrisandchris 6y agoI was here for the server-as-we-know-server and got disappointed too.
- m463 6y agoI was searching for container stuff and came across this video on crypto mining in a container: https://youtu.be/IZ_bQJM5liM https://youtu.be/IZ_bQJM5liM I was a quite a ways into the video before I slapped my forehead.
- bsd44 6y agoThink about this for a moment. There are people out there who are willing to give out their full name, home address and their phone number just so they can buy a brand name sandwich. If we are willing to trade our freedoms for convenience, perhaps an Orwellian future cannot be avoided after all.