4 ms·

A bit off-topic, but can someone tell me why server firmware takes so long to initialize compared to laptop firmware? And why even laptop firmware takes longer

A bit off-topic, but can someone tell me why server firmware takes so long to initialize compared to laptop firmware? And why even laptop firmware takes longer to initialize now compared to laptops from some say 7 years ago? Why is firmware initialization getting so darn slow when computers are getting faster?

fennecfoxen 6y ago
Servers never reboot, so no one cares.
- fomine3 6y ago
  It could be a reason. Maybe Server's boot time is not optimized like Microsoft/Intel does in PC.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  I have no idea why you're getting downvoted; this is very much my experience. An actual physical server is usually either a database server that can literally manage years of up time (no I didn't like it, but they were on an isolated network and the Oracle DBAs were very particular about updates), or else VM hosts that support live migration so nobody cares if we happen to have one host offline for an hour or two while it's patched and rebooted.
theandrewbailey 6y ago
Servers really need to make sure that everything works, and works properly.
bjonnh 6y ago
Memory initialization is really slow. On servers there is that, plus the fact that you usually don't want to do a fast ram check like you can afford on a laptop. Add to that initialization of the remote management, SAS/raid,... A server does a pretty thorough quality control when it boots. Also if you have a lot of mechanical drives, there may not be enough power budget to spin them all up at the same time, so they start progressively.
xxs 6y ago
Memory training with a lot of channels is slow. Laptops have 2 channels and 2 ldimm slots. > Why is firmware initialization getting so darn slow when computers are getting faster? That alone has zero bearing with regard to the initialization process is it doesn't have to compute stuff, but wait for signals and much, much slower IO/memory.
dijit 6y ago
Seems like most of the comments are talking about the reasons and they're all right of course but there's a bit more to it. First, there's the out-of-band management engine, which is technically in control of everything. The BIOS and the Lights-Out management system are interdependent. They will communicate with each other. Just initialising this communication channel is more complicated that a normal computers entire BIOS. Then there's activating every sensor and hardware device, most servers aren't actually the 2 x86_64 CPUs that are socketed to the motherboard, they're more like 30+ CPU's, various hardware controllers, including networks, fan controllers, drive controllers, power supply controllers. Each of them also has firmware equivelant of a whole BIOS, and they also will communicate with each other. Thirdly, every sensor/firmware/device test is synchronous and logged. That logging is painfully slow as it's logging via the out-of-band management engine and that engine is super tiny and low power. Finally all that memory will be tested and not 'assumed' to be fine. Each individual DIMM is blasted with voltage to test if it's seated well, then there is some memory testing which is not only more extensive than the 'fast check' your laptop will do, it's more heavy than the "heavy" check your laptop will do. There's a bit more to it too, like the fact that memory gets "extended" into the out of band system so that it can control VGA/Serial/USB.

fennecfoxen 6y ago

Servers never reboot, so no one cares.

fomine3 6y ago
It could be a reason. Maybe Server's boot time is not optimized like Microsoft/Intel does in PC.
yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted; this is very much my experience. An actual physical server is usually either a database server that can literally manage years of up time (no I didn't like it, but they were on an isolated network and the Oracle DBAs were very particular about updates), or else VM hosts that support live migration so nobody cares if we happen to have one host offline for an hour or two while it's patched and rebooted.

theandrewbailey 6y ago

Servers really need to make sure that everything works, and works properly.

bjonnh 6y ago

Memory initialization is really slow. On servers there is that, plus the fact that you usually don't want to do a fast ram check like you can afford on a laptop. Add to that initialization of the remote management, SAS/raid,... A server does a pretty thorough quality control when it boots. Also if you have a lot of mechanical drives, there may not be enough power budget to spin them all up at the same time, so they start progressively.

xxs 6y ago

Memory training with a lot of channels is slow. Laptops have 2 channels and 2 ldimm slots. > Why is firmware initialization getting so darn slow when computers are getting faster? That alone has zero bearing with regard to the initialization process is it doesn't have to compute stuff, but wait for signals and much, much slower IO/memory.

dijit 6y ago

Seems like most of the comments are talking about the reasons and they're all right of course but there's a bit more to it. First, there's the out-of-band management engine, which is technically in control of everything. The BIOS and the Lights-Out management system are interdependent. They will communicate with each other. Just initialising this communication channel is more complicated that a normal computers entire BIOS. Then there's activating every sensor and hardware device, most servers aren't actually the 2 x86_64 CPUs that are socketed to the motherboard, they're more like 30+ CPU's, various hardware controllers, including networks, fan controllers, drive controllers, power supply controllers. Each of them also has firmware equivelant of a whole BIOS, and they also will communicate with each other. Thirdly, every sensor/firmware/device test is synchronous and logged. That logging is painfully slow as it's logging via the out-of-band management engine and that engine is super tiny and low power. Finally all that memory will be tested and not 'assumed' to be fine. Each individual DIMM is blasted with voltage to test if it's seated well, then there is some memory testing which is not only more extensive than the 'fast check' your laptop will do, it's more heavy than the "heavy" check your laptop will do. There's a bit more to it too, like the fact that memory gets "extended" into the out of band system so that it can control VGA/Serial/USB.