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Generally on HN the Principle of Charity shines through. People respond thoughtfully to the strongest version of a commenter's statement. Not always, but often.

Generally on HN the Principle of Charity shines through. People respond thoughtfully to the strongest version of a commenter's statement. Not always, but often. On Reddit, especially in large or political subs, it's the exact opposite. You're a racist, sexist, white, cis, male homophobic, transphobic monster until and unless you preface your thoughts with lip-service to all groups concerned, even if you're not discussing politics or social issues.

thu2111 6y ago
It's not much different here. Try taking non-liberal positions e.g. try defending men in tech against the notion they're inherently sexist. You'll burn a lot of karma and get a whole lot of snarky replies "educating" you about the correctness of feminist ideology. Even new topics like COVID are hardly better. Try making an argument and support it with evidence posted on some conservative or even just non-liberal source: about 50% of the time or more someone will reply with something of the form, "I didn't read it but your source is bad so you are bad". After years of observing this kind of behaviour, and watching /r/ukpolitics be taken over by the same sort of extremists that trashed /r/unitedkingdom, I concluded the problem isn't really internet forums. Some of their mechanics like downvoting don't help as they conflate "I disagree" with "I think this post is low quality", something Slashdot for instance tried to avoid. But the underlying problem is liberal ideology. Specifically: 1. The belief that words are powerful and thus dangerous words need to be suppressed and replaced with enlightened words. 2. The belief that conservative views are dangerous. The combination of these two beliefs causes them to repeatedly attempt to take over forums, often by becoming moderators, and then systematically "cleanse" those forums of conservative viewpoints. This behaviour isn't reciprocal - outside of forums specifically devoted to conservative views like maybe /r/TheDonald I practically never encounter this kind of behaviour, as the conservative mindset is that words/ideas aren't dangerous and thus free speech is to be valued and encouraged. When one side in a conflict prioritises taking over and controlling conversation, and the other side doesn't, the natural outcome is that with enough time any forum for discussion ends up controlled by those who want to control it. Hence the widespread feeling amongst conservatives that the "mainstream" is biased against them. It's not so much an argument a specific set of groups but rather the general feeling that with time any popular forum gets taken over by people who view them as enemies.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Do you believe that injecting bleach into your veins and shoving a flashlight with an ultraviolet lightbulb where the sun doesn't shine is dangerous, or is it safe because it was recommended as a treatment for Coronavirus on national television by the leader of the conservative Republican party himself? If conservative viewpoints like that are dangerous to your health, then why shouldn't they be "cleansed"? Or did you follow those recommendations? How is it working out for you?
  - giardini 6y ago
    2. Paragraph 1: a) Strawman at least twice (once for bleach, once for "recommended"), b) divide the question. 3. Paragraph 2: Assumed premise, personal attacks. DonHopkins, for such poorly presented incorrect, biased and angry attacks (the term "argument" does not apply) you certainly have a high karma! For that reason I should examine your other posts on this forum.
- ganstyles 6y ago
  I wrote a longer response, but realized I probably shouldn't spend much time engaging you. I think you might be trolling, but I also think on this forum we should give other commenters the benefit of the doubt. So in case you're being genuine: Your line of thinking is deeply flawed and I think critically examining it from a different viewpoint might be eye opening.

thu2111 6y ago

It's not much different here. Try taking non-liberal positions e.g. try defending men in tech against the notion they're inherently sexist. You'll burn a lot of karma and get a whole lot of snarky replies "educating" you about the correctness of feminist ideology. Even new topics like COVID are hardly better. Try making an argument and support it with evidence posted on some conservative or even just non-liberal source: about 50% of the time or more someone will reply with something of the form, "I didn't read it but your source is bad so you are bad". After years of observing this kind of behaviour, and watching /r/ukpolitics be taken over by the same sort of extremists that trashed /r/unitedkingdom, I concluded the problem isn't really internet forums. Some of their mechanics like downvoting don't help as they conflate "I disagree" with "I think this post is low quality", something Slashdot for instance tried to avoid. But the underlying problem is liberal ideology. Specifically: 1. The belief that words are powerful and thus dangerous words need to be suppressed and replaced with enlightened words. 2. The belief that conservative views are dangerous. The combination of these two beliefs causes them to repeatedly attempt to take over forums, often by becoming moderators, and then systematically "cleanse" those forums of conservative viewpoints. This behaviour isn't reciprocal - outside of forums specifically devoted to conservative views like maybe /r/TheDonald I practically never encounter this kind of behaviour, as the conservative mindset is that words/ideas aren't dangerous and thus free speech is to be valued and encouraged. When one side in a conflict prioritises taking over and controlling conversation, and the other side doesn't, the natural outcome is that with enough time any forum for discussion ends up controlled by those who want to control it. Hence the widespread feeling amongst conservatives that the "mainstream" is biased against them. It's not so much an argument a specific set of groups but rather the general feeling that with time any popular forum gets taken over by people who view them as enemies.

DonHopkins 6y ago
Do you believe that injecting bleach into your veins and shoving a flashlight with an ultraviolet lightbulb where the sun doesn't shine is dangerous, or is it safe because it was recommended as a treatment for Coronavirus on national television by the leader of the conservative Republican party himself? If conservative viewpoints like that are dangerous to your health, then why shouldn't they be "cleansed"? Or did you follow those recommendations? How is it working out for you?
- giardini 6y ago
  2. Paragraph 1: a) Strawman at least twice (once for bleach, once for "recommended"), b) divide the question. 3. Paragraph 2: Assumed premise, personal attacks. DonHopkins, for such poorly presented incorrect, biased and angry attacks (the term "argument" does not apply) you certainly have a high karma! For that reason I should examine your other posts on this forum.
ganstyles 6y ago
I wrote a longer response, but realized I probably shouldn't spend much time engaging you. I think you might be trolling, but I also think on this forum we should give other commenters the benefit of the doubt. So in case you're being genuine: Your line of thinking is deeply flawed and I think critically examining it from a different viewpoint might be eye opening.