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I like what Deno is selling. URL like import path is great, I don't know why people are dismissing it. It is easy to get up-and-running quickly. Looks like my

by didip 6y ago

I like what Deno is selling. URL like import path is great, I don't know why people are dismissing it. It is easy to get up-and-running quickly. Looks like my personal law/rule is in effect again: The harsher HN critics are, the more successful the product will be. I have no doubt Deno will be successful.

kreetx 6y ago
This seems to be the case, yes. It's like the critics unconsciously know it's better, and that is where their energy comes from.
- mekster 6y ago
  More like "There can't be a better stuff than what I'm accustomed to and like" feel.
oblio 6y ago
> It is easy to get up-and-running quickly. Almost all successful, mainstream, techs are like that. From a purely technical perspective, they are awful (or where awful at launch), they were just adopted because they were easy to use. When I say awful, I mean for professional use in high impact environments: financial, healthcare, automotive, etc. Examples: VB/VBA, Javascript, PHP, MySQL, Mongo, Docker, Node. Few people would argue that except for ease of use and ubiquity, any of these techs were superior to their competitors at launch or even a few years after. After a while what happens is that these techs become entrenched and more serious devs have to dig in and they generally make these techs bearable. See Javascript before V8 and after, as an example. A big chunk of the HN crowd is high powered professional developers, people working for FAANGs and startups with interesting domains. It's only normal they criticize what they consider half-baked tech.
sradman 6y ago
The GoLang-like URL import and dependency management are indeed an innovation in simplicity while simultaneously offering better compatibility with browser JavaScript. Perhaps the HN-hate is not about simplified greenfield tech as much as it is about breaking established brownfield processes and modules.
gintery 6y ago
Your law is hilarious. I tend to check the comments before reading a post: if they say the idea is terrible, I know I should read it.
Aldo_MX 6y ago
My concern is what happens when popular-library.io goes down or gets hacked? Or how about attack vectors like DNS poisoning? or government-based firewalls? I know there's this[1], but somehow I still feel uneasy because the web is so fragile and ephemeral... At the very least I would like to have the standard library offline... [1] https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/master/docs/linking_to_external_code.md https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/master/docs/linking_to...
- mekster 6y ago
  > what happens when popular-library.io goes down or gets hacked? What is anyone going to do about it? Anything has a chance of getting hacked or goes down just when you need it, be it GitHub, npmjs.org... Blaming the tool for not having a protection against DNS poisoning is a bit far fetched.
  - xevrem 6y ago
    ultimately i guess it is about how/if deno caches its imports. with node.js/npm you have the exact same problems, just the source & sink occur at different places (package installation)
    - z3t4 6y ago
      With Node.js you install the packages in a dev environment, and test extensively, then push all the code, including node_packages folder to production. Running npm on the prod server is forbidden. At least in theory =)
- TechBro8615 6y ago
  Do you also share these concerns about golang? Isn’t it basically the same system?
  - kminehart 6y ago
    Golang does have https://proxy.golang.org/ https://proxy.golang.org/, which is fairly recent, but yes this is absolutely a problem in Go. See the "go-bindata" problem.

by didip 6y ago

kreetx 6y ago

This seems to be the case, yes. It's like the critics unconsciously know it's better, and that is where their energy comes from.

mekster 6y ago
More like "There can't be a better stuff than what I'm accustomed to and like" feel.

oblio 6y ago

> It is easy to get up-and-running quickly. Almost all successful, mainstream, techs are like that. From a purely technical perspective, they are awful (or where awful at launch), they were just adopted because they were easy to use. When I say awful, I mean for professional use in high impact environments: financial, healthcare, automotive, etc. Examples: VB/VBA, Javascript, PHP, MySQL, Mongo, Docker, Node. Few people would argue that except for ease of use and ubiquity, any of these techs were superior to their competitors at launch or even a few years after. After a while what happens is that these techs become entrenched and more serious devs have to dig in and they generally make these techs bearable. See Javascript before V8 and after, as an example. A big chunk of the HN crowd is high powered professional developers, people working for FAANGs and startups with interesting domains. It's only normal they criticize what they consider half-baked tech.

sradman 6y ago

The GoLang-like URL import and dependency management are indeed an innovation in simplicity while simultaneously offering better compatibility with browser JavaScript. Perhaps the HN-hate is not about simplified greenfield tech as much as it is about breaking established brownfield processes and modules.

gintery 6y ago

Your law is hilarious. I tend to check the comments before reading a post: if they say the idea is terrible, I know I should read it.

Aldo_MX 6y ago

My concern is what happens when popular-library.io goes down or gets hacked? Or how about attack vectors like DNS poisoning? or government-based firewalls? I know there's this[1], but somehow I still feel uneasy because the web is so fragile and ephemeral... At the very least I would like to have the standard library offline... [1] https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/master/docs/linking_to_external_code.md https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/master/docs/linking_to...

mekster 6y ago
> what happens when popular-library.io goes down or gets hacked? What is anyone going to do about it? Anything has a chance of getting hacked or goes down just when you need it, be it GitHub, npmjs.org... Blaming the tool for not having a protection against DNS poisoning is a bit far fetched.
- xevrem 6y ago
  ultimately i guess it is about how/if deno caches its imports. with node.js/npm you have the exact same problems, just the source & sink occur at different places (package installation)
  - z3t4 6y ago
    With Node.js you install the packages in a dev environment, and test extensively, then push all the code, including node_packages folder to production. Running npm on the prod server is forbidden. At least in theory =)
TechBro8615 6y ago
Do you also share these concerns about golang? Isn’t it basically the same system?
- kminehart 6y ago
  Golang does have https://proxy.golang.org/ https://proxy.golang.org/, which is fairly recent, but yes this is absolutely a problem in Go. See the "go-bindata" problem.