4 ms·

As a Bernie supporter, I'm disappointed by his lack of a YES vote. We at least deserve a statement. I'm going to suggest a potential explanation, but I'm still

As a Bernie supporter, I'm disappointed by his lack of a YES vote. We at least deserve a statement. I'm going to suggest a potential explanation, but I'm still disappointed by the lack of vote and/or statement. Based on how Patty Murray (D) has said she would have voted YES but wasn't able to get to DC in time, it's clear it was never going to pass to begin with. This happens often – someone like Mitch McConnell might whip the votes, realize they're ahead, and allow a few Republicans that are at-risk to vote YES to provide cover for them in the future. Remember, even if you count the two Independents as Democrats, there's still 6 more Republicans. We've seen this with Susan Collins a lot; if Republicans don't need her vote she'll vote against them. But when they need it, she votes with the party like clockwork. So, now we get to be mad at Sanders and Murray (the Democrats who weren't in DC), and nobody blames the 37 Republicans who actually killed it. Remember that McConnell decides what is voted on, and he always knows the votes. Maybe the one exception ever was McCain saving Obamacare. I feel certain Sanders would have voted YES. He's historically been mostly pro-Snowden, anti-surveillance, and pro-whistleblowers (it's nuanced; for example he thinks Snowden should be prosecuted but also thinks what he did was right and that he should get a plea deal). (Not the point, but it's insane Senators have to be physically present, especially given the situation. At least one Senator missed the vote due to quarantine. Why are we making a 78 year old man physically fly to DC to vote, and do so in a chamber full of at least one person who has had COVID-19 recently?) Like I said, I'm still disappointed we haven't even gotten a statement from Sanders yet. But this whole thing has been on my mind a lot today.

kenhwang 6y ago
I agree that this likely wouldn't have passed even with Bernie since McConnell can easily whip a vote to switch. That being said, this puts Bernie's incompetence at politicking in the spotlight. Any half decent politician would've been able to deflect, Murray is a perfect example of how easy it is.
- gkoberger 6y ago
  I think his "incompetence at politicking" is what draws a lot of people to him (since he comes off as much more genuine and real), however it's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" situation. There have been a frustrating number of times where I felt a simple tweet could have saved a lot of bad optics.
  - skuhn 6y ago
    It is part of his appeal, and I like a lot of what Bernie has to say. But you can't win if you don't play the game and politics is definitely a game. Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. It's not remotely a coincidence that all of those candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden near-simultaneously -- meanwhile the best Bernie could get was de Blasio and Williamson. Failing to even get Warren to endorse him isn't a failure of his ideology, it's a case of political incompetence. I hope someone (Warren? others?) echoes a lot of what he has to say and then actually executes within the political system we have today to accomplish those things. Within my lifetime would be nice.
    - bigbob2 6y ago
      > Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. That is not hard when they benefit from a multiple year media blackout against Bernie. Playing the game sounds a lot like compromising on values; something which would have also led to voters losing interest. I would argue he did play the game, and that's why he lost. He did not try to draw enough distinctions between himself and Biden for fear of hurting the Democrats, and in the process missed many opportunities to call Biden out on his inconsistencies. > Failing to even get Warren to endorse him isn't a failure of his ideology, it's a case of political incompetence. Failing to get Warren to endorse him is not a case of political incompetence, but rather desire to gain more power by Warren. The political machine built by the establishment Democrats was always going to be put to work against a candidate like Bernie, or if you prefer, to "facilitate the gatekeepers." > I hope someone (Warren? others?) echoes a lot of what he has to say and then actually executes within the political system we have today to accomplish those things. Warren already executed exactly what she wanted to execute within the political system; to ensure the gatekeepers maintain order. She will be rewarded accordingly, probably with a cabinet position, if Biden somehow manages to win the Presidency.
Klonoar 6y ago
>nobody blames the 37 Republicans who actually killed it I think we _do_ blame the 37 Republicans, it's just that that's not a particularly new emotion to feel at this point. It's no secret that the GOP pulls this stuff (as, like you noted, with Collins). Currently, though, Bernie (and Murray, who at least commented) have the image of not being present for what, even if only optically, feels like an incredibly important job. I've had to say this to a few people today: you can be equally annoyed with with the people who voted for it, the GOP who brought it, and those who weren't there to try and stop it to begin with. Everyone on this forum knows what's at stake here, so it's frustrating to see the "one vote missing" here. Edit: a word.
- trynewideas 6y ago
  For additional context, Bernie hasn't voted in any of the 10 roll call votes so far in May.[1] He's not campaigning anymore. Hell, he was streaming on Twitch this evening. As noted up thread, the GOP would've just moved the goalposts by turning one of their swing votes if there was any danger of him putting a vote in for this. But he was batting .000 on the month going into today, so it was an easy bet. 1: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400...
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > As noted up thread, the GOP would've just moved the goalposts by turning one of their swing votes if there was any danger of him putting a vote in for this. That's exactly why he should've showed up. The swing votes are swing votes because voting that way is unpopular in their district. It makes it hurt more to do the wrong thing. "Meh, it would've passed anyway" lets the people doing wrong get off too easy.
- swiley 6y ago
  That’s a bit weird, he seems pretty pro privacy. I know he voted against the Real ID thing (including the version that was tacked on to a spending bill which was how it passed.)
Der_Einzige 6y ago
Bernie not voting yes for this is the final nail in the coffin for my enthusiasm towards him. I'd still take him over others, but he's no longer the firebrand anti-authoritarian that I took him for initially.
- bantunes 6y ago
  What were the other nails?
  - hartator 6y ago
    Calling to vote Hilary then Biden probably.
creato 6y ago
> Based on how Patty Murray (D) has said she would have voted YES but wasn't able to get to DC in time, it's clear it was never going to pass to begin with. This happens often – someone like Mitch McConnell might whip the votes, realize they're ahead, and allow a few Republicans that are at-risk to vote YES to provide cover for them in the future. So make them vote yes. If they think it is a weakness to vote yes, all the more reason to force them to do so.

kenhwang 6y ago

I agree that this likely wouldn't have passed even with Bernie since McConnell can easily whip a vote to switch. That being said, this puts Bernie's incompetence at politicking in the spotlight. Any half decent politician would've been able to deflect, Murray is a perfect example of how easy it is.

gkoberger 6y ago
I think his "incompetence at politicking" is what draws a lot of people to him (since he comes off as much more genuine and real), however it's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" situation. There have been a frustrating number of times where I felt a simple tweet could have saved a lot of bad optics.
- skuhn 6y ago
  It is part of his appeal, and I like a lot of what Bernie has to say. But you can't win if you don't play the game and politics is definitely a game. Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. It's not remotely a coincidence that all of those candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden near-simultaneously -- meanwhile the best Bernie could get was de Blasio and Williamson. Failing to even get Warren to endorse him isn't a failure of his ideology, it's a case of political incompetence. I hope someone (Warren? others?) echoes a lot of what he has to say and then actually executes within the political system we have today to accomplish those things. Within my lifetime would be nice.
  - bigbob2 6y ago
    > Hillary and Biden snaring the nomination ahead of Bernie show how thoroughly the establishment Democrats can school him on politics. His appeal to certain voters is great, but he still has to play the game to some degree. That is not hard when they benefit from a multiple year media blackout against Bernie. Playing the game sounds a lot like compromising on values; something which would have also led to voters losing interest. I would argue he did play the game, and that's why he lost. He did not try to draw enough distinctions between himself and Biden for fear of hurting the Democrats, and in the process missed many opportunities to call Biden out on his inconsistencies. > Failing to even get Warren to endorse him isn't a failure of his ideology, it's a case of political incompetence. Failing to get Warren to endorse him is not a case of political incompetence, but rather desire to gain more power by Warren. The political machine built by the establishment Democrats was always going to be put to work against a candidate like Bernie, or if you prefer, to "facilitate the gatekeepers." > I hope someone (Warren? others?) echoes a lot of what he has to say and then actually executes within the political system we have today to accomplish those things. Warren already executed exactly what she wanted to execute within the political system; to ensure the gatekeepers maintain order. She will be rewarded accordingly, probably with a cabinet position, if Biden somehow manages to win the Presidency.

Klonoar 6y ago

>nobody blames the 37 Republicans who actually killed it I think we _do_ blame the 37 Republicans, it's just that that's not a particularly new emotion to feel at this point. It's no secret that the GOP pulls this stuff (as, like you noted, with Collins). Currently, though, Bernie (and Murray, who at least commented) have the image of not being present for what, even if only optically, feels like an incredibly important job. I've had to say this to a few people today: you can be equally annoyed with with the people who voted for it, the GOP who brought it, and those who weren't there to try and stop it to begin with. Everyone on this forum knows what's at stake here, so it's frustrating to see the "one vote missing" here. Edit: a word.

trynewideas 6y ago
For additional context, Bernie hasn't voted in any of the 10 roll call votes so far in May.[1] He's not campaigning anymore. Hell, he was streaming on Twitch this evening. As noted up thread, the GOP would've just moved the goalposts by turning one of their swing votes if there was any danger of him putting a vote in for this. But he was batting .000 on the month going into today, so it was an easy bet. 1: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400...
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > As noted up thread, the GOP would've just moved the goalposts by turning one of their swing votes if there was any danger of him putting a vote in for this. That's exactly why he should've showed up. The swing votes are swing votes because voting that way is unpopular in their district. It makes it hurt more to do the wrong thing. "Meh, it would've passed anyway" lets the people doing wrong get off too easy.
swiley 6y ago
That’s a bit weird, he seems pretty pro privacy. I know he voted against the Real ID thing (including the version that was tacked on to a spending bill which was how it passed.)

Der_Einzige 6y ago

Bernie not voting yes for this is the final nail in the coffin for my enthusiasm towards him. I'd still take him over others, but he's no longer the firebrand anti-authoritarian that I took him for initially.

bantunes 6y ago
What were the other nails?
- hartator 6y ago
  Calling to vote Hilary then Biden probably.

creato 6y ago

> Based on how Patty Murray (D) has said she would have voted YES but wasn't able to get to DC in time, it's clear it was never going to pass to begin with. This happens often – someone like Mitch McConnell might whip the votes, realize they're ahead, and allow a few Republicans that are at-risk to vote YES to provide cover for them in the future. So make them vote yes. If they think it is a weakness to vote yes, all the more reason to force them to do so.