26 ms·

> The rest of the site is just groupthink tribal warfare for bitter professional victims. So ... just like HN?

steve_adams_86 6y ago
I know HN has some bad moments, but I actually still learn quite a bit here and get introduced to new ideas. That's a lot less common on Reddit, even though I'm only subscribed to niche, specific subreddits. Nothing is perfect but I feel more informed and otherwise safer having discussions here.
- luckylion 6y ago
  I agree regarding being exposed to new ideas, but turning on "show dead" has given me some doubt. Plenty of regular comments get flagged and killed, e.g. this [1] comment that I vouched for. I can only assume, but it feels like people are feeling attacked because they enjoy the circlejerk and feel they must censor this comment that call them out. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23175556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23175556
- pjc50 6y ago
  HN bans flamewars per se; anything controversial will have the article itself flagged into oblivion so the entire discussion is gone. You can have good discussions, but they must be at the margins, and stay away from the subjects that HN is known to fail at discussing.
newsbinator 6y ago
Generally on HN the Principle of Charity shines through. People respond thoughtfully to the strongest version of a commenter's statement. Not always, but often. On Reddit, especially in large or political subs, it's the exact opposite. You're a racist, sexist, white, cis, male homophobic, transphobic monster until and unless you preface your thoughts with lip-service to all groups concerned, even if you're not discussing politics or social issues.
- thu2111 6y ago
  It's not much different here. Try taking non-liberal positions e.g. try defending men in tech against the notion they're inherently sexist. You'll burn a lot of karma and get a whole lot of snarky replies "educating" you about the correctness of feminist ideology. Even new topics like COVID are hardly better. Try making an argument and support it with evidence posted on some conservative or even just non-liberal source: about 50% of the time or more someone will reply with something of the form, "I didn't read it but your source is bad so you are bad". After years of observing this kind of behaviour, and watching /r/ukpolitics be taken over by the same sort of extremists that trashed /r/unitedkingdom, I concluded the problem isn't really internet forums. Some of their mechanics like downvoting don't help as they conflate "I disagree" with "I think this post is low quality", something Slashdot for instance tried to avoid. But the underlying problem is liberal ideology. Specifically: 1. The belief that words are powerful and thus dangerous words need to be suppressed and replaced with enlightened words. 2. The belief that conservative views are dangerous. The combination of these two beliefs causes them to repeatedly attempt to take over forums, often by becoming moderators, and then systematically "cleanse" those forums of conservative viewpoints. This behaviour isn't reciprocal - outside of forums specifically devoted to conservative views like maybe /r/TheDonald I practically never encounter this kind of behaviour, as the conservative mindset is that words/ideas aren't dangerous and thus free speech is to be valued and encouraged. When one side in a conflict prioritises taking over and controlling conversation, and the other side doesn't, the natural outcome is that with enough time any forum for discussion ends up controlled by those who want to control it. Hence the widespread feeling amongst conservatives that the "mainstream" is biased against them. It's not so much an argument a specific set of groups but rather the general feeling that with time any popular forum gets taken over by people who view them as enemies.
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    Do you believe that injecting bleach into your veins and shoving a flashlight with an ultraviolet lightbulb where the sun doesn't shine is dangerous, or is it safe because it was recommended as a treatment for Coronavirus on national television by the leader of the conservative Republican party himself? If conservative viewpoints like that are dangerous to your health, then why shouldn't they be "cleansed"? Or did you follow those recommendations? How is it working out for you?

I know HN has some bad moments, but I actually still learn quite a bit here and get introduced to new ideas. That's a lot less common on Reddit, even though I'm only subscribed to niche, specific subreddits. Nothing is perfect but I feel more informed and otherwise safer having discussions here.

luckylion 6y ago
I agree regarding being exposed to new ideas, but turning on "show dead" has given me some doubt. Plenty of regular comments get flagged and killed, e.g. this [1] comment that I vouched for. I can only assume, but it feels like people are feeling attacked because they enjoy the circlejerk and feel they must censor this comment that call them out. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23175556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23175556
pjc50 6y ago
HN bans flamewars per se; anything controversial will have the article itself flagged into oblivion so the entire discussion is gone. You can have good discussions, but they must be at the margins, and stay away from the subjects that HN is known to fail at discussing.

newsbinator 6y ago

Generally on HN the Principle of Charity shines through. People respond thoughtfully to the strongest version of a commenter's statement. Not always, but often. On Reddit, especially in large or political subs, it's the exact opposite. You're a racist, sexist, white, cis, male homophobic, transphobic monster until and unless you preface your thoughts with lip-service to all groups concerned, even if you're not discussing politics or social issues.

thu2111 6y ago
It's not much different here. Try taking non-liberal positions e.g. try defending men in tech against the notion they're inherently sexist. You'll burn a lot of karma and get a whole lot of snarky replies "educating" you about the correctness of feminist ideology. Even new topics like COVID are hardly better. Try making an argument and support it with evidence posted on some conservative or even just non-liberal source: about 50% of the time or more someone will reply with something of the form, "I didn't read it but your source is bad so you are bad". After years of observing this kind of behaviour, and watching /r/ukpolitics be taken over by the same sort of extremists that trashed /r/unitedkingdom, I concluded the problem isn't really internet forums. Some of their mechanics like downvoting don't help as they conflate "I disagree" with "I think this post is low quality", something Slashdot for instance tried to avoid. But the underlying problem is liberal ideology. Specifically: 1. The belief that words are powerful and thus dangerous words need to be suppressed and replaced with enlightened words. 2. The belief that conservative views are dangerous. The combination of these two beliefs causes them to repeatedly attempt to take over forums, often by becoming moderators, and then systematically "cleanse" those forums of conservative viewpoints. This behaviour isn't reciprocal - outside of forums specifically devoted to conservative views like maybe /r/TheDonald I practically never encounter this kind of behaviour, as the conservative mindset is that words/ideas aren't dangerous and thus free speech is to be valued and encouraged. When one side in a conflict prioritises taking over and controlling conversation, and the other side doesn't, the natural outcome is that with enough time any forum for discussion ends up controlled by those who want to control it. Hence the widespread feeling amongst conservatives that the "mainstream" is biased against them. It's not so much an argument a specific set of groups but rather the general feeling that with time any popular forum gets taken over by people who view them as enemies.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Do you believe that injecting bleach into your veins and shoving a flashlight with an ultraviolet lightbulb where the sun doesn't shine is dangerous, or is it safe because it was recommended as a treatment for Coronavirus on national television by the leader of the conservative Republican party himself? If conservative viewpoints like that are dangerous to your health, then why shouldn't they be "cleansed"? Or did you follow those recommendations? How is it working out for you?