3 ms·

I think that a lot of times white privilege is used incorrectly as the predominant reason why someone did/did not succeed, rather than one of many complex facto

I think that a lot of times white privilege is used incorrectly as the predominant reason why someone did/did not succeed, rather than one of many complex factors. It's even hard to point to a specific event that exemplifies it, rather an a shift in distribution of potential outcomes (getting into a particular college, for example). Maybe there's a useful parallel to folks arguing that climate change isn't real when there's a bad winter (particular event vs the overall trend).

uoaei 6y ago
"White privilege" isn't one out of many factors though. It's the underlying reason for why so many factors came together to help you succeed in the first place. White privilege is having your application go through the first time because your name is spelled how webdevs expect. White privilege is your assigned recruiter giving the extra 0.x seconds of time to look over your resume if they consider you as one of their tribe and "deserving" of placement. These judgments, while often rationalized consciously post-hoc, really mostly happen at the subconscious level before we're even aware that we're thinking about it. White privilege is knowing where to start to achieve your goals because there are people in your community that can provide mentorship who have probably benefited from white privilege to the point that they can point you in the right direction and even give you some connections to break onto the scene. etc. Your "useful parallel" is relying on tokenism as a sort of reverse no-true-Scotsman attack.
- albntomat0 6y ago
  Factors that have helped me: - Having well educated parents able to help me with my school and putting an large emphasis on its importance - Having both parents in the house - Having access to, and the ability to participate in extracurriculars in school Those are all correlated with my race, but there are also white people who lack them. Those are the many factors I was talking about. They are specific and identifiable. The useful parallel is that people do a poor job of identifying trends, when counter examples to the trend exist.
  - uoaei 6y ago
    > Those are all correlated with my race, but there are also white people who lack them. No true Scotsman again. The counter examples do not negate the overwhelming influence of the causes to which the trend is attributed.
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      ... but you created the same No True Scotsman in the inverse, up thread? Your definition of "white privilege" assumes a complete homogeneity of experience that is absolutely not the case. Do you actually believe that all white people experience life in the exact way you described?
      - uoaei 6y ago
        #NotAllWhitePeople is not a very useful line of rhetoric if the goal is to solve the problem of equity in opportunity. It is a given and openly acknowledged that not all white people have the same chances. But it doesn't seem particularly accurate to assert that a difference in equity is insignificant between folks who only differ in race because of some pre-existing intra-race variance.
        remarkEon 6y ago
        And #AllWhitePeople is? If it's a "given" that "not all white people" have the same life experience, then why is it a useful line of rhetoric, in your case, to pretend that they do? I'm not following your last sentence. Is your claim that the intra-race variance of experience is sufficiently [edit: not] different to a degree that it's useful, rhetorically speaking, to pretend that one race's experience is homogeneous?
        uoaei 6y ago
        The differences in equity within the cohort of white people is in general of a lower magnitude than differences in equity between white folk and black folk. That's the starkest and, in America at least, the most historically important comparison between races and thus the thing that usually ends up getting talked about most. Not all white people, but a large majority of white people, have it better off than most minority folks, with some notable exceptions.

uoaei 6y ago

"White privilege" isn't one out of many factors though. It's the underlying reason for why so many factors came together to help you succeed in the first place. White privilege is having your application go through the first time because your name is spelled how webdevs expect. White privilege is your assigned recruiter giving the extra 0.x seconds of time to look over your resume if they consider you as one of their tribe and "deserving" of placement. These judgments, while often rationalized consciously post-hoc, really mostly happen at the subconscious level before we're even aware that we're thinking about it. White privilege is knowing where to start to achieve your goals because there are people in your community that can provide mentorship who have probably benefited from white privilege to the point that they can point you in the right direction and even give you some connections to break onto the scene. etc. Your "useful parallel" is relying on tokenism as a sort of reverse no-true-Scotsman attack.

albntomat0 6y ago
Factors that have helped me: - Having well educated parents able to help me with my school and putting an large emphasis on its importance - Having both parents in the house - Having access to, and the ability to participate in extracurriculars in school Those are all correlated with my race, but there are also white people who lack them. Those are the many factors I was talking about. They are specific and identifiable. The useful parallel is that people do a poor job of identifying trends, when counter examples to the trend exist.
- uoaei 6y ago
  > Those are all correlated with my race, but there are also white people who lack them. No true Scotsman again. The counter examples do not negate the overwhelming influence of the causes to which the trend is attributed.
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    ... but you created the same No True Scotsman in the inverse, up thread? Your definition of "white privilege" assumes a complete homogeneity of experience that is absolutely not the case. Do you actually believe that all white people experience life in the exact way you described?
    - uoaei 6y ago
      #NotAllWhitePeople is not a very useful line of rhetoric if the goal is to solve the problem of equity in opportunity. It is a given and openly acknowledged that not all white people have the same chances. But it doesn't seem particularly accurate to assert that a difference in equity is insignificant between folks who only differ in race because of some pre-existing intra-race variance.
      - remarkEon 6y ago
        And #AllWhitePeople is? If it's a "given" that "not all white people" have the same life experience, then why is it a useful line of rhetoric, in your case, to pretend that they do? I'm not following your last sentence. Is your claim that the intra-race variance of experience is sufficiently [edit: not] different to a degree that it's useful, rhetorically speaking, to pretend that one race's experience is homogeneous?
        uoaei 6y ago
        The differences in equity within the cohort of white people is in general of a lower magnitude than differences in equity between white folk and black folk. That's the starkest and, in America at least, the most historically important comparison between races and thus the thing that usually ends up getting talked about most. Not all white people, but a large majority of white people, have it better off than most minority folks, with some notable exceptions.