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You wrote a long post but could you perhaps expand it even more? Perhaps in an article? I don't see how "more order means more economic activity": if anything,

You wrote a long post but could you perhaps expand it even more? Perhaps in an article? I don't see how "more order means more economic activity": if anything, I associate "more order" with more bureaucracy and higher barrier to entry for new economic agents.

bdr 16y ago
I think what they mean is closely related to the idea of trust as a kind of social capital. Economists have studied this. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_(social_sciences)#Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_(social_sciences)#Economi... Essentially, "social trust benefits the economy and a low level of trust inhibits economic growth". You're not going to open a store if you're pretty sure it's going to get robbed. Order doesn't have to mean bureaucracy.
stcredzero 16y ago
You wrote a long post but could you perhaps expand it even more? Perhaps in an article? Actually, I'm thinking of doing exactly that. I don't see how "more order means more economic activity": if anything, I associate "more order" with more bureaucracy and higher barrier to entry for new economic agents. It's contextual, actually. I presume you are commenting from an industrialized nation. For you, more order is going to mean more bureaucracy, more friction, and less economic activity. For someone living somewhere, where the rule of law doesn't even apply, to the point where it's hard to maintain basic infrastructure, there isn't enough order yet. In that case, more order = more economic activity. I'm saying, in the context of digital security, the Internet as a whole still suffers from a poverty of infrastructure that inhibits many kinds of transactions. There is tremendous risk and opportunity here for those daring enough to do something about it.
- deleted 16y ago
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MichaelApproved 16y ago
The more order you have, the more you can predict into the future and feel comfortable making longer term investments.
scott_s 16y ago
Infrastructure. If you can't depend on the roads, you can't offer a delivery service. If you can't depend on running water, you can't operate a restaurant. If you can't depend on electricity, you can't have a movie theater.
anigbrowl 16y ago
I think you're reading 'more order' as 'more [bureaucratic] orders.' an unregulated environment is great for experimenting and starting things, but order is important for maintaining what has already been built and providing the long-term stability that makes business predictable and thus worth investing in. Otherwise, as your enterprise becomes profitable it begins to incur ever-higher security costs, quickly resulting in a situation of diminishing returns. This is why you don't see very much inward investment in places like Russia, Somalia and so on. The barriers to entry are very low for anyone with capital and an idea, but the barriers to exit are very high. Consider the case of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky
cheez 16y ago
His heart is in the right place. I think it's more like "not afraid that I will get shot or robbed while walking to the store means more economic activity". "This contract will be honoured" means more economic activity. Just stuff like that. Bureaucrats need to get real jobs.

bdr 16y ago

I think what they mean is closely related to the idea of trust as a kind of social capital. Economists have studied this. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_(social_sciences)#Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_(social_sciences)#Economi... Essentially, "social trust benefits the economy and a low level of trust inhibits economic growth". You're not going to open a store if you're pretty sure it's going to get robbed. Order doesn't have to mean bureaucracy.

stcredzero 16y ago

You wrote a long post but could you perhaps expand it even more? Perhaps in an article? Actually, I'm thinking of doing exactly that. I don't see how "more order means more economic activity": if anything, I associate "more order" with more bureaucracy and higher barrier to entry for new economic agents. It's contextual, actually. I presume you are commenting from an industrialized nation. For you, more order is going to mean more bureaucracy, more friction, and less economic activity. For someone living somewhere, where the rule of law doesn't even apply, to the point where it's hard to maintain basic infrastructure, there isn't enough order yet. In that case, more order = more economic activity. I'm saying, in the context of digital security, the Internet as a whole still suffers from a poverty of infrastructure that inhibits many kinds of transactions. There is tremendous risk and opportunity here for those daring enough to do something about it.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

MichaelApproved 16y ago

The more order you have, the more you can predict into the future and feel comfortable making longer term investments.

scott_s 16y ago

Infrastructure. If you can't depend on the roads, you can't offer a delivery service. If you can't depend on running water, you can't operate a restaurant. If you can't depend on electricity, you can't have a movie theater.

anigbrowl 16y ago

I think you're reading 'more order' as 'more [bureaucratic] orders.' an unregulated environment is great for experimenting and starting things, but order is important for maintaining what has already been built and providing the long-term stability that makes business predictable and thus worth investing in. Otherwise, as your enterprise becomes profitable it begins to incur ever-higher security costs, quickly resulting in a situation of diminishing returns. This is why you don't see very much inward investment in places like Russia, Somalia and so on. The barriers to entry are very low for anyone with capital and an idea, but the barriers to exit are very high. Consider the case of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky

cheez 16y ago

His heart is in the right place. I think it's more like "not afraid that I will get shot or robbed while walking to the store means more economic activity". "This contract will be honoured" means more economic activity. Just stuff like that. Bureaucrats need to get real jobs.