5 ms·

> It’s worth the effort because there’s usually a huge leak of energy when our gait is unbalanced or restricted. Why do I want my walk to leak less energy / be

by tlb 6y ago

> It’s worth the effort because there’s usually a huge leak of energy when our gait is unbalanced or restricted. Why do I want my walk to leak less energy / be more efficient? A fast walk is nowhere near my aerobic limit, so what would be the benefit of using less energy? Having a sedentary job, I generally need more exercise, not less. A better thing to optimize for would be less impact on knees and back.

snewk 6y ago
you could always crawl
dbtc 6y ago
I think efficiency and impact are generally inversely proportional, so you're good either way. If walking isn't near your aerobic limit then you'd be much better off doing something else for exercise than making your stride less efficient. Walking as a kind of meditation or just to relax might be quite valuable. Then, the more efficient (relaxed) the better.
mikepurvis 6y ago
I wonder this sometimes about bicycling— I'm fortunate enough to be able to commute by bike year-round, and to have a separate winter bike to ride in the snowy months. But the winter bike is a lot heavier and therefore more work to ride, so I'm sure I get more exercise riding it. On the other hand, I also have more fun riding my summer bike and therefore ride it further and farther (eg, choosing it for errands above and beyond my commute). So I think the performance gain is still a win for my exercise regimen.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  I would consider the geometry and body posture of your winter bike vs summer bike. It's possible that one (or both!) of them aren't fitted properly for exercising in a way that is good for your body and posture, although they are probably just fine for riding about town. Bike fit is one of those things where once you get it right, you'll wonder how you survived any other way.
  - mikepurvis 6y ago
    That's a good point and something to look into for sure— the summer bike is a pretty standard road racer (Cannondale R800), whereas the winter one is more of an upright-posture city rider (KHS Urban X), so definitely quite different; and I've never been professionally fitted on either one. TBH, the real driver on getting a second ride was just having the fatter wheels that would accommodate studded tires, which are a total godsend for riding on icy and snowy roads.
pen2l 6y ago
> A better thing to optimize for would be less impact on knees and back. I have osteoporosis, and my endocrinologist told me to do weight-wearing exercises, including running. For me, we _needed_ high impact exercises to strengthen the bones. If you're going to be just walking, the slight impact might very well be something you need. Different goals for every body, but I'm just saying this out loud so that "less impact for knees" doesn't become a goal for folks who read that statement.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  Mayo Clinic disagrees with you and thinks your advice is dangerous. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/osteoporosis/in-depth/osteoporosis/art-20044989 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/osteoporosis/... You may be an exceptional case, but your should mention that.
  - s5300 6y ago
    While I wish I had a good amount of credible sources on hand to post with this comment, I only really have suggestive anecdotal data. Mayo Clinic isn't as good as you might think when it comes to musculoskeletal issues. They're great with infectious diseases though. In this case, I'd take caution with their thoughts on osteoporosis. For example, Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. For the longest time Mayo Clinic denied it was a real condition. Then they agreed that 1/3 types was a real condition. Now they accept all types, or at least say they do, but try to chase away a large amount of people that have it for some reason. Finally, their surgery/treatment protocols are statistically quite bad now that they've started treating it. They've ruined a good amount of people's lives with bad surgical methods related to the syndrome... On the other hand, Boston Massachusetts General Hospital excels at musculoskeletal issues, especially thoracic outlet syndrome. This is coming from somebody diagnosed with TOS at Mayo Clinic, going to MGH for surgical options as the average review from people having treatment at Mayo was terrible. Mass Gen. found that my case was much worse than Mayo had reported in their notes, and that their treatment protocol would've made me quite worse. Mass Gen. attempts a large amount of re-do surgeries for this syndrome with surprisingly good outcome, and people who had bad surgery at Mayo Clinic are their largest percentage of re-do's. Just a thought I think should be out there. Like most institutions it would seem, Mayo is really good at some things... And really bad at others.
hnick 6y ago
An energy leak could mean the wrong muscles are firing. I sometimes get hip issues when I walk since I got in the habit of, for want or a better word, "floppy" and less intentional motion for some reason. This means one muscle can be doing most of the work and the supporting muscles aren't playing their role. When this happens I have to slow down and ensure I'm using my full suite of muscles or it gets worse.
2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
Your argument doesn’t really makes sense. I spent a lot of time fixing my run and posture and indirectly how I walk due to injuries. You 100% want to be moving correctly. Correct, efficient movement also helps with injuries. They’re related. Once you are moving correctly, getting more exercise injury free is trivial. You just work longer, heavier or faster. You don’t need to move inefficiently (and probably incorrectly) to “get more exercise”.
- hossbeast 6y ago
  What did you do to fix your running posture? Any recommendations? (Trying to work on this myself)
  - cachestash 6y ago
    Not OP, but I am a nationally qualified running coach (in my spare time outside of my day job). I have run all sorts of distances from 5k park runs to 100 mile and above ultra marathons. I have made every mistake in the book and helped quite a few people avoid the same mistakes. To keep things simple with two easy to follow steps: 1. Tall posture, imagine a balloon is tied to the top of your head and is pulling you upwards. 2. Download a metronome app to your phone and set it around 170 and in time climb up to 175 180 if it feels ok. You then want to time each foot strike to a beep. This will cause your stride to narrow and discourage an overstride. When you overstride the foot extends forwards and the force of landing gets absorbed by your knee / hips, which is inefficient (its almost like applying a break) and it can cause injury. Running at a high cadence tends to make you ligter on your feet and encourages a good foot strike (under the cartridge of the hips), landing in this way benefits from the elasticity we have in our tendons and you get a certain amount of energy return from this. This video describes it very well and the runner has beautiful form. Just don't try to take it all in, focus on the cadence 170-175-180 rhythm and get that right first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIDRHUWlVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIDRHUWlVo
    - hossbeast 6y ago
      Awesome, thank you.
astrobe_ 6y ago
More energy means more heat. You don't want to walk fast and arrive all sweaty and out-of-breath at a shop or a meeting etc.
eru 6y ago
I guess one way to waste energy is to have a big impact on your knees and back. If you want to recycle your energy, you can't waste it on impacts?
bluntfang 6y ago
I assure you that while you definitely should be walking more, walking alone is by no means exercise. By walking inefficiently you aren't getting "more exercise" than walking efficiently.
- dbmueller 6y ago
  > walking alone is by no means exercise. why is that?
  - bluntfang 6y ago
    I think that's a deep question with a deep answer and will urge to to talk to your doctor about that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by tlb 6y ago

snewk 6y ago

you could always crawl

dbtc 6y ago

I think efficiency and impact are generally inversely proportional, so you're good either way. If walking isn't near your aerobic limit then you'd be much better off doing something else for exercise than making your stride less efficient. Walking as a kind of meditation or just to relax might be quite valuable. Then, the more efficient (relaxed) the better.

mikepurvis 6y ago

I wonder this sometimes about bicycling— I'm fortunate enough to be able to commute by bike year-round, and to have a separate winter bike to ride in the snowy months. But the winter bike is a lot heavier and therefore more work to ride, so I'm sure I get more exercise riding it. On the other hand, I also have more fun riding my summer bike and therefore ride it further and farther (eg, choosing it for errands above and beyond my commute). So I think the performance gain is still a win for my exercise regimen.

bluntfang 6y ago
I would consider the geometry and body posture of your winter bike vs summer bike. It's possible that one (or both!) of them aren't fitted properly for exercising in a way that is good for your body and posture, although they are probably just fine for riding about town. Bike fit is one of those things where once you get it right, you'll wonder how you survived any other way.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  That's a good point and something to look into for sure— the summer bike is a pretty standard road racer (Cannondale R800), whereas the winter one is more of an upright-posture city rider (KHS Urban X), so definitely quite different; and I've never been professionally fitted on either one. TBH, the real driver on getting a second ride was just having the fatter wheels that would accommodate studded tires, which are a total godsend for riding on icy and snowy roads.

pen2l 6y ago

> A better thing to optimize for would be less impact on knees and back. I have osteoporosis, and my endocrinologist told me to do weight-wearing exercises, including running. For me, we _needed_ high impact exercises to strengthen the bones. If you're going to be just walking, the slight impact might very well be something you need. Different goals for every body, but I'm just saying this out loud so that "less impact for knees" doesn't become a goal for folks who read that statement.

lonelappde 6y ago
Mayo Clinic disagrees with you and thinks your advice is dangerous. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/osteoporosis/in-depth/osteoporosis/art-20044989 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/osteoporosis/... You may be an exceptional case, but your should mention that.
- s5300 6y ago
  While I wish I had a good amount of credible sources on hand to post with this comment, I only really have suggestive anecdotal data. Mayo Clinic isn't as good as you might think when it comes to musculoskeletal issues. They're great with infectious diseases though. In this case, I'd take caution with their thoughts on osteoporosis. For example, Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. For the longest time Mayo Clinic denied it was a real condition. Then they agreed that 1/3 types was a real condition. Now they accept all types, or at least say they do, but try to chase away a large amount of people that have it for some reason. Finally, their surgery/treatment protocols are statistically quite bad now that they've started treating it. They've ruined a good amount of people's lives with bad surgical methods related to the syndrome... On the other hand, Boston Massachusetts General Hospital excels at musculoskeletal issues, especially thoracic outlet syndrome. This is coming from somebody diagnosed with TOS at Mayo Clinic, going to MGH for surgical options as the average review from people having treatment at Mayo was terrible. Mass Gen. found that my case was much worse than Mayo had reported in their notes, and that their treatment protocol would've made me quite worse. Mass Gen. attempts a large amount of re-do surgeries for this syndrome with surprisingly good outcome, and people who had bad surgery at Mayo Clinic are their largest percentage of re-do's. Just a thought I think should be out there. Like most institutions it would seem, Mayo is really good at some things... And really bad at others.

hnick 6y ago

An energy leak could mean the wrong muscles are firing. I sometimes get hip issues when I walk since I got in the habit of, for want or a better word, "floppy" and less intentional motion for some reason. This means one muscle can be doing most of the work and the supporting muscles aren't playing their role. When this happens I have to slow down and ensure I'm using my full suite of muscles or it gets worse.

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago

Your argument doesn’t really makes sense. I spent a lot of time fixing my run and posture and indirectly how I walk due to injuries. You 100% want to be moving correctly. Correct, efficient movement also helps with injuries. They’re related. Once you are moving correctly, getting more exercise injury free is trivial. You just work longer, heavier or faster. You don’t need to move inefficiently (and probably incorrectly) to “get more exercise”.

hossbeast 6y ago
What did you do to fix your running posture? Any recommendations? (Trying to work on this myself)
- cachestash 6y ago
  Not OP, but I am a nationally qualified running coach (in my spare time outside of my day job). I have run all sorts of distances from 5k park runs to 100 mile and above ultra marathons. I have made every mistake in the book and helped quite a few people avoid the same mistakes. To keep things simple with two easy to follow steps: 1. Tall posture, imagine a balloon is tied to the top of your head and is pulling you upwards. 2. Download a metronome app to your phone and set it around 170 and in time climb up to 175 180 if it feels ok. You then want to time each foot strike to a beep. This will cause your stride to narrow and discourage an overstride. When you overstride the foot extends forwards and the force of landing gets absorbed by your knee / hips, which is inefficient (its almost like applying a break) and it can cause injury. Running at a high cadence tends to make you ligter on your feet and encourages a good foot strike (under the cartridge of the hips), landing in this way benefits from the elasticity we have in our tendons and you get a certain amount of energy return from this. This video describes it very well and the runner has beautiful form. Just don't try to take it all in, focus on the cadence 170-175-180 rhythm and get that right first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIDRHUWlVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSIDRHUWlVo
  - hossbeast 6y ago
    Awesome, thank you.

astrobe_ 6y ago

More energy means more heat. You don't want to walk fast and arrive all sweaty and out-of-breath at a shop or a meeting etc.

eru 6y ago

I guess one way to waste energy is to have a big impact on your knees and back. If you want to recycle your energy, you can't waste it on impacts?

bluntfang 6y ago

I assure you that while you definitely should be walking more, walking alone is by no means exercise. By walking inefficiently you aren't getting "more exercise" than walking efficiently.

dbmueller 6y ago
> walking alone is by no means exercise. why is that?
- bluntfang 6y ago
  I think that's a deep question with a deep answer and will urge to to talk to your doctor about that.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]