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> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advi

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advice is really important. Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose 6 years of your life in grad school aimlessly this way. Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. If you don't have such an idea based on your undergrad experience, that's already a warning sign that you shouldn't just go to grad school. Another warning sign is if you don't know who (which professor) you want to work for. Grad school is advisor-based in the extreme. And definitely don't go just because "it's always good to be educated more". That approach will probably leave you disappointed and surprised by what grad school is. As the author mentions, success in grad school is not just more classes. And if you do a random walk because you don't know what you want, you'll waste a lot of time. Aside from what the author describes in other good points, if you fall into this category of why you "think you want" to go to grad school, do yourself a favor, and get outside your comfort zone and go into the real world of business or a company for a stint. Don't just let yourself go autopilot into grad school because it seems to look like more college. At least have a look outside and try something before you default back to the university. A few years in a real company taught me much more (and faster), life skills-per-time, than in grad school. Yes, admittedly I came out of grad school with some good technical skills and a whole lot of accumulated knowledge that I put to use today still. But I look back wishing I had learned about real world problem solving and ability to cut the bullshit and get to the bottom line sooner. Be sure you go in with open eyes. And open them by looking outside first.

asciident 6y ago
That's a really surprising opinion to be, because I feel the exact same way but replacing "grad school" with "working at a corporation". I feel that most people go get a job on autopilot, as applying to a PhD requires substantial preparation whereas applying for a job is sort of a default. Then a job is even more so trading time for money, and easy to lose 6 years, or even 40 years in a blink. And what do you have to show for it? Half the projects get cancelled, 95% of projects at a corporation don't last past 5 years. Your name does not even appear on any work you have done. Most of the the skills you gain are about how to navigate that specific corporation. This feel to me like the biggest waste of time when I was refreshing Reddit to death at my desk. At least with a Ph.D., you're at least learning a skill, and gaining a globally recognized credential. Having 10 years at AT&T or Oracle is a decaying credential in comparison. Like you, I'd suggest for people to "get outside your comfort zone" of a business/company and "try something before you default" to a corporate desk job.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kyllo 6y ago
  Good point, but it's worth noting that "go get a job on autopilot" behavior is entirely rational as it's driven by economic necessity--most people go get jobs because that's the only way they can afford food, shelter, healthcare, and other basic necessities. I wish it were optional!
romwell 6y ago
>Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. Yeah, this doesn't apply to mathematics, where the undergraduate degree often doesn't even prepare you to understand the problem you would eventually get to work on. I participated in REUs and was a co-author on a published paper before I started my math PhD, and it was still a long journey to arrive at a project that ended up in a dissertation. One of the great things about grad school was that I got to learn mathematics that I wouldn't otherwise - not just in classes, of course. Getting more educated would have been a good enough reason. Aimless wandering was just a part of the journey, and a nearly inevitable one. While I am talking about mathematics here, theoretical computer science is just a branch of math, and is not much different. Looking back, there are many things that I could have done differently, lots of bullshit I could have avoided, and many things in that broken system that I could have dodged. But "don't go to grad school if you don't already have a project" just isn't a solid advice, in my opinion. It's great if that is the case, but you need to be very lucky for that to happen.
ImprobableTruth 6y ago
What would you do to get a good idea? I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud. Coming up with an idea that you'd be willing to commit several years to just seems incredibly hard. I'd imagine that working at a real company isn't really the best occupation and place to generate new ideas unless what you're interested in is more practical. It just seems like it'd be more distracting than inspiring. I've thought about getting a second undergrad degree (math, very closely related to the area) to broaden my horizon and I'm from Europe so I wouldn't be in debt or anything, but the idea feels quite silly.
- anjc 6y ago
  > I'm from Europe so I wouldn't be in debt or anything Do a Masters and it will help with all of your questions
  - ImprobableTruth 6y ago
    I'm in the process of getting my master's degree, but so far it just feels incremental to the bachelor's. Does the thesis make a huge difference?
    - algorias 6y ago
      Yes. The master's thesis is often the first time someone does real research from start to finish. Make sure it's not just implementing some already existing idea, there are a lot of "easy" topics like that being offered. You want the opposite, being part of defining what the solution looks like, or what the goal should even be.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud. Yes, that’s research. Sometimes you try to do something only to discover either that you can’t do it or that it can’t be done. To get a good idea you learn and work on bad ideas. Doing a thesis is closer to doing real research than what you’ve done before, more than likely. Rather than doing another Bachelor’s consider doing another Master’s or getting a job as a research assistant.
anjc 6y ago
> Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. I don't think many supervisors will let you do this. 1) you'll need to find someone who has funding and already works in the area of your good idea 2) people overestimate how much they can do during a PhD 3) you probably aren't aware of the field coming out of undergrad 4) not a lot of theses will ever be read outside of the examiners, let alone be a breakthrough. I'd say do a PhD if you feel like it, you can work for years on mundane tasks that likely wont culminate in a breakthrough, aren't prone to depression/stress, and don't care about money.
- rapjr9 6y ago
  I second this. I worked for several professors over 20 years as a software programmer at an ivy league college, mostly working alongside grad students. The grad students had to fight to get to work on their own projects or do them in secret. Collaborating with someone without getting the approval of your advisor was often considered a betrayal and would get shut down as soon as discovered. If you weren't interested in the advisors projects they would not take you on. Post docs were treated even worse. This isn't true of all advisors, but many of them are like this because they are trying to build their own reputations using your work (their name goes on all your papers). If you really want to work on your own thing be up front about it; otherwise you'll spend the entire time doing things you're not interested in and which will define the kinds of jobs you can get afterwards.
bo1024 6y ago
This is mostly good advice, but this part is not: > Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. If you don't have such an idea based on your undergrad experience, that's already a warning sign that you shouldn't just go to grad school. When this happens, I think the person usually realizes the idea is too naive, too small, too vague, too already-studied, etc. to be a good research problem. It generally requires quite a bit of PhD time before even being able to recognize a good idea, and more to have one. Also, most good ideas simply don't lead to breakthroughs; they lead to nice advances at best. I agree it's a very good idea to know which professors you probably want to work with when you apply. So a burning desire to become expert in a specific area is a very good indicator for a PhD.

asciident 6y ago

That's a really surprising opinion to be, because I feel the exact same way but replacing "grad school" with "working at a corporation". I feel that most people go get a job on autopilot, as applying to a PhD requires substantial preparation whereas applying for a job is sort of a default. Then a job is even more so trading time for money, and easy to lose 6 years, or even 40 years in a blink. And what do you have to show for it? Half the projects get cancelled, 95% of projects at a corporation don't last past 5 years. Your name does not even appear on any work you have done. Most of the the skills you gain are about how to navigate that specific corporation. This feel to me like the biggest waste of time when I was refreshing Reddit to death at my desk. At least with a Ph.D., you're at least learning a skill, and gaining a globally recognized credential. Having 10 years at AT&T or Oracle is a decaying credential in comparison. Like you, I'd suggest for people to "get outside your comfort zone" of a business/company and "try something before you default" to a corporate desk job.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kyllo 6y ago
Good point, but it's worth noting that "go get a job on autopilot" behavior is entirely rational as it's driven by economic necessity--most people go get jobs because that's the only way they can afford food, shelter, healthcare, and other basic necessities. I wish it were optional!

romwell 6y ago

>Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. Yeah, this doesn't apply to mathematics, where the undergraduate degree often doesn't even prepare you to understand the problem you would eventually get to work on. I participated in REUs and was a co-author on a published paper before I started my math PhD, and it was still a long journey to arrive at a project that ended up in a dissertation. One of the great things about grad school was that I got to learn mathematics that I wouldn't otherwise - not just in classes, of course. Getting more educated would have been a good enough reason. Aimless wandering was just a part of the journey, and a nearly inevitable one. While I am talking about mathematics here, theoretical computer science is just a branch of math, and is not much different. Looking back, there are many things that I could have done differently, lots of bullshit I could have avoided, and many things in that broken system that I could have dodged. But "don't go to grad school if you don't already have a project" just isn't a solid advice, in my opinion. It's great if that is the case, but you need to be very lucky for that to happen.

ImprobableTruth 6y ago

What would you do to get a good idea? I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud. Coming up with an idea that you'd be willing to commit several years to just seems incredibly hard. I'd imagine that working at a real company isn't really the best occupation and place to generate new ideas unless what you're interested in is more practical. It just seems like it'd be more distracting than inspiring. I've thought about getting a second undergrad degree (math, very closely related to the area) to broaden my horizon and I'm from Europe so I wouldn't be in debt or anything, but the idea feels quite silly.

anjc 6y ago
> I'm from Europe so I wouldn't be in debt or anything Do a Masters and it will help with all of your questions
- ImprobableTruth 6y ago
  I'm in the process of getting my master's degree, but so far it just feels incremental to the bachelor's. Does the thesis make a huge difference?
  - algorias 6y ago
    Yes. The master's thesis is often the first time someone does real research from start to finish. Make sure it's not just implementing some already existing idea, there are a lot of "easy" topics like that being offered. You want the opposite, being part of defining what the solution looks like, or what the goal should even be.
barry-cotter 6y ago
> I have an area I'm really interested in, but it just seems like any ideas I have could have the potential to be a dud. Yes, that’s research. Sometimes you try to do something only to discover either that you can’t do it or that it can’t be done. To get a good idea you learn and work on bad ideas. Doing a thesis is closer to doing real research than what you’ve done before, more than likely. Rather than doing another Bachelor’s consider doing another Master’s or getting a job as a research assistant.

anjc 6y ago

> Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. I don't think many supervisors will let you do this. 1) you'll need to find someone who has funding and already works in the area of your good idea 2) people overestimate how much they can do during a PhD 3) you probably aren't aware of the field coming out of undergrad 4) not a lot of theses will ever be read outside of the examiners, let alone be a breakthrough. I'd say do a PhD if you feel like it, you can work for years on mundane tasks that likely wont culminate in a breakthrough, aren't prone to depression/stress, and don't care about money.

rapjr9 6y ago
I second this. I worked for several professors over 20 years as a software programmer at an ivy league college, mostly working alongside grad students. The grad students had to fight to get to work on their own projects or do them in secret. Collaborating with someone without getting the approval of your advisor was often considered a betrayal and would get shut down as soon as discovered. If you weren't interested in the advisors projects they would not take you on. Post docs were treated even worse. This isn't true of all advisors, but many of them are like this because they are trying to build their own reputations using your work (their name goes on all your papers). If you really want to work on your own thing be up front about it; otherwise you'll spend the entire time doing things you're not interested in and which will define the kinds of jobs you can get afterwards.

bo1024 6y ago

This is mostly good advice, but this part is not: > Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. If you don't have such an idea based on your undergrad experience, that's already a warning sign that you shouldn't just go to grad school. When this happens, I think the person usually realizes the idea is too naive, too small, too vague, too already-studied, etc. to be a good research problem. It generally requires quite a bit of PhD time before even being able to recognize a good idea, and more to have one. Also, most good ideas simply don't lead to breakthroughs; they lead to nice advances at best. I agree it's a very good idea to know which professors you probably want to work with when you apply. So a burning desire to become expert in a specific area is a very good indicator for a PhD.