3 ms·

My feelings are a little different. If you feel like doing a PhD and enjoy doing research, you should do it. A PhD above all should be fun, and is thus not a wa

by gaze 6y ago

My feelings are a little different. If you feel like doing a PhD and enjoy doing research, you should do it. A PhD above all should be fun, and is thus not a waste. It's only a waste if it's not fun. There will be extended periods of intense struggle, and those parts are not that fun. One has to accept those. But, doing cutting edge research with experts is an incredible opportunity and I'd encourage those interested to take the plunge. If it doesn't work out, why not take the MA and run?

Cyph0n 6y ago
Agreed. As you noted, you don’t have much to lose by giving it a try, and you can always drop out and get the MS (like I did).
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun. It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.
  - Cyph0n 6y ago
    You misunderstood: I was referring to trying out a PhD for those curious about it. Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree.
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      That's not so bad, especially when you're 22. But I'm 58 now, and even two years still seems like a long time to me, perhaps because I don't have that many two-year intervals left...
      - Cyph0n 6y ago
        True, that makes the decision a bit more difficult. But if you’re truly interested in getting into the world of academic research, I still think it’s worth a shot.
    - seanwilson 6y ago
      > Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree. I wouldn't bet on that and it's rarely that clean. I think a very common story with PhDs is: 1) after a year or so you have huge doubts you're going to finish 2) you consider quitting but don't want it to look bad on your resume, you don't want to be seen as a quitter, you don't want to let people down, you don't want the money you've spent so far to be for nothing, you know if you give up now you'll never be able to try again etc. 3) you hope it'll get better and push on. This problem then compounds itself year after year as 2 becomes a increasingly weightier issue and sunk cost fallacy takes over.
  - glangdale 6y ago
    That's a weird way to look at it. It's not like you're dead for 4-6 years... The start of your PhD is effectively like your working life - albeit a underpaid-but-interesting period. On net my PhD has almost certainly paid off the (ahem) 4-6 year-ish period (ha, ha) that it took me to get a PhD. Incidentally, 4-6 years is a bit of a wildly optimistic estimate, even if you're not as big a screw-up as I was.
  - plopilop 6y ago
    I'm curious, how does it work in the US? In Europe, you first study 3 years to get a bachelor's degree, then 2 more years for a master's degree (or an engineer degree), then you apply for a PhD which is supposed to last 3 years. In natural sciences they do last 3 years in general, in human sciences they are usually quite longer.
    - mici 6y ago
      This varies within Europe as well, for example in Hungary our bachelor was 3.5 years, the master 2, and the PhD 4.
kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
It should be fun, but it's not clear for how much people it is fun and not merely Stockholm syndrome. It feels like in many ways academia has it worse than the corporate world (lower pay, similar or more politics, more personal fiefdoms, greater chance of harassment / coercion), yet people propagate the image of a certain unfairly romanticized wonderland.

by gaze 6y ago

Cyph0n 6y ago

Agreed. As you noted, you don’t have much to lose by giving it a try, and you can always drop out and get the MS (like I did).

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun. It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.
- Cyph0n 6y ago
  You misunderstood: I was referring to trying out a PhD for those curious about it. Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    That's not so bad, especially when you're 22. But I'm 58 now, and even two years still seems like a long time to me, perhaps because I don't have that many two-year intervals left...
    - Cyph0n 6y ago
      True, that makes the decision a bit more difficult. But if you’re truly interested in getting into the world of academic research, I still think it’s worth a shot.
  - seanwilson 6y ago
    > Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree. I wouldn't bet on that and it's rarely that clean. I think a very common story with PhDs is: 1) after a year or so you have huge doubts you're going to finish 2) you consider quitting but don't want it to look bad on your resume, you don't want to be seen as a quitter, you don't want to let people down, you don't want the money you've spent so far to be for nothing, you know if you give up now you'll never be able to try again etc. 3) you hope it'll get better and push on. This problem then compounds itself year after year as 2 becomes a increasingly weightier issue and sunk cost fallacy takes over.
- glangdale 6y ago
  That's a weird way to look at it. It's not like you're dead for 4-6 years... The start of your PhD is effectively like your working life - albeit a underpaid-but-interesting period. On net my PhD has almost certainly paid off the (ahem) 4-6 year-ish period (ha, ha) that it took me to get a PhD. Incidentally, 4-6 years is a bit of a wildly optimistic estimate, even if you're not as big a screw-up as I was.
- plopilop 6y ago
  I'm curious, how does it work in the US? In Europe, you first study 3 years to get a bachelor's degree, then 2 more years for a master's degree (or an engineer degree), then you apply for a PhD which is supposed to last 3 years. In natural sciences they do last 3 years in general, in human sciences they are usually quite longer.
  - mici 6y ago
    This varies within Europe as well, for example in Hungary our bachelor was 3.5 years, the master 2, and the PhD 4.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago

It should be fun, but it's not clear for how much people it is fun and not merely Stockholm syndrome. It feels like in many ways academia has it worse than the corporate world (lower pay, similar or more politics, more personal fiefdoms, greater chance of harassment / coercion), yet people propagate the image of a certain unfairly romanticized wonderland.