4 ms·

The medical marijuana debate is retarded. Of course it should be allowed for medical reasons. We already use a lot of heavier drugs for that obviously. The reta

by schtog 18y ago

The medical marijuana debate is retarded. Of course it should be allowed for medical reasons. We already use a lot of heavier drugs for that obviously. The retardedness comes in when people use that as an argument for legalization. What does marijuana as medicine has to do with marijuana as a social/enertainment drug? Sidenote: I dont smoke marijuana as someone would probably deduce from the above but I am also not opposed to it. If people want to smoke it it is fine with me, it just makes my head explode when people use the above argumentation.

jey 18y ago
Yes, that's an awful argument for legalization, but I do think that we need to either ban alcohol or legalize pot for the sake of consistency. Alcohol is an addictive substance that kills lots of people[1] directly through toxicity and indirectly through impaired judgment. Pot is not physiologically addictive and is nontoxic for all practical purposes[2], and the worst that can happen while stoned is that you waste a lot of time or anger your roommate by eating his cheetos. FWIW, I say legalize both, use it in a safe environment or not at all, don't drive or operate heavy machinery, don't let it derail your life, etc. 1. http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf (Looks like we should ban tobacco too.) 2. The LD50 of the main active compound (THC) is on the order of 500mg/kg oral in animal models. (That's a ridiculous amount. A marijuana user typically smokes well under a gram of plant material at one sitting.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50_of_THC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50_of_THC
- schtog 18y ago
  I completely agree with you, like I said I dont smoke it(doesnt give me anything) but I dont mind if you do. Legalizing also makes it safer I guess, on the other hand I guess also more widespread but if it's legalized it can be taxed which is better than the money ending up in criminal hands. However I doubt it will be legalized and banning alcohol would be incredibly hard, at least wine and beer and I certainly wouldnt want it to be even if I dont drink much of it myself. Maybe a ban on heavy alcohol(vodka, scotch etc) would work but I doubt that too. Anyway what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs? I guess alcohol is one too but do you think the legalization of marijuana would bring more people to heavier drugs?
  - jey 18y ago
    "However I doubt it will be legalized and banning alcohol would be incredibly hard" I don't know, I think it's hard to predict. There's a lot of unknown and difficult-to-predict things that can happen to change public opinion in a short time. A good example is the sharp turn public opinion took against racism during the 1960s in the US, or the sharp turns worldwide for and against prohibition in the early 20th century. So it seems like status quo bias to predict that these things will just stay the same indefinitely. "what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs?" That's just a myth manufactured by the anti-drug movements. They take the true statistical fact that most "hard drug" users also use marijuana and come to the bogus conclusion that pot somehow contributes to, enables, or causes the hard drug use. Correlation is not causation! http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm
  - narag 18y ago
    >Anyway what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs? In my experience this is not true. I can remember a numerous group of people that used to join to smoke hashish (here it's the most usual preparation) 25 o 30 years ago. Most of the group is now doing perfectly: architects, engineers, businessmen... only two had any problems, one of them died due to overdose. But it was clear before that something was wrong with both of them. I knew the dead man since childhood and he had something inside that he couldn't control, long before he took any drug.
- narag 18y ago
  >Alcohol is an addictive substance that kills lots of people[1] directly through toxicity and indirectly through impaired judgment. There is strong evidence that red wine is a powerful antioxidant that prevents heart diseases. That'd be "medicinal ethanol". I don't find the medicinal argument so ridiculous. Like wine, people has smoked cannabis for a long long time. It isn't toxic and it has several beneficious substances. So why forbid it? >the worst that can happen while stoned is that you waste a lot of time or anger your roommate by eating his cheetos. OTOH, I don't think that's the worst that can happen to you. Heavy frequent use makes people lazy and lose their "sharpness", not very good for programmers. And it's still a drug. What you feel while using it isn't real. But I don't even think it's a point against legalization.
martythemaniak 18y ago
I think the people you're referring to are well aware that it may sound iffy. They use this type of reasoning because they know well that acceptance of marijuana as a legal drug will lead to far laxer rules about marijuana for recreational uses.
- jauco 18y ago
  I don't agree. The acceptance of morphine (a very pure form of heroine) as a painkiller hasn't really created laxer rules about heroine for recreational uses either.
  - narag 18y ago
    The chemical process needed to purify drugs is a qualitative jump.
    - jauco 18y ago
      Using morphine for recreational uses isn't more accepted then heroine.
      - narag 18y ago
        Both morphine and heroine are highly concentrated. I think even the poppies are very strong without too much preparation. If you want a realistic comparison it'd be coca leaves against cocaine. The as-is coca is a mild stimulant used by natives during hundreds or thousands of years for long marchs. The purified cocaine is a strong, potentially addictive drug.
        jauco 18y ago
        Ah, I misunderstood you previous comment.

by schtog 18y ago

jey 18y ago

Yes, that's an awful argument for legalization, but I do think that we need to either ban alcohol or legalize pot for the sake of consistency. Alcohol is an addictive substance that kills lots of people[1] directly through toxicity and indirectly through impaired judgment. Pot is not physiologically addictive and is nontoxic for all practical purposes[2], and the worst that can happen while stoned is that you waste a lot of time or anger your roommate by eating his cheetos. FWIW, I say legalize both, use it in a safe environment or not at all, don't drive or operate heavy machinery, don't let it derail your life, etc. 1. http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf http://www.csdp.org/research/1238.pdf (Looks like we should ban tobacco too.) 2. The LD50 of the main active compound (THC) is on the order of 500mg/kg oral in animal models. (That's a ridiculous amount. A marijuana user typically smokes well under a gram of plant material at one sitting.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50_of_THC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50_of_THC

schtog 18y ago
I completely agree with you, like I said I dont smoke it(doesnt give me anything) but I dont mind if you do. Legalizing also makes it safer I guess, on the other hand I guess also more widespread but if it's legalized it can be taxed which is better than the money ending up in criminal hands. However I doubt it will be legalized and banning alcohol would be incredibly hard, at least wine and beer and I certainly wouldnt want it to be even if I dont drink much of it myself. Maybe a ban on heavy alcohol(vodka, scotch etc) would work but I doubt that too. Anyway what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs? I guess alcohol is one too but do you think the legalization of marijuana would bring more people to heavier drugs?
- jey 18y ago
  "However I doubt it will be legalized and banning alcohol would be incredibly hard" I don't know, I think it's hard to predict. There's a lot of unknown and difficult-to-predict things that can happen to change public opinion in a short time. A good example is the sharp turn public opinion took against racism during the 1960s in the US, or the sharp turns worldwide for and against prohibition in the early 20th century. So it seems like status quo bias to predict that these things will just stay the same indefinitely. "what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs?" That's just a myth manufactured by the anti-drug movements. They take the true statistical fact that most "hard drug" users also use marijuana and come to the bogus conclusion that pot somehow contributes to, enables, or causes the hard drug use. Correlation is not causation! http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mjgate.htm
- narag 18y ago
  >Anyway what do you think of marijuana as a stepping stone to heavier drugs? In my experience this is not true. I can remember a numerous group of people that used to join to smoke hashish (here it's the most usual preparation) 25 o 30 years ago. Most of the group is now doing perfectly: architects, engineers, businessmen... only two had any problems, one of them died due to overdose. But it was clear before that something was wrong with both of them. I knew the dead man since childhood and he had something inside that he couldn't control, long before he took any drug.
narag 18y ago
>Alcohol is an addictive substance that kills lots of people[1] directly through toxicity and indirectly through impaired judgment. There is strong evidence that red wine is a powerful antioxidant that prevents heart diseases. That'd be "medicinal ethanol". I don't find the medicinal argument so ridiculous. Like wine, people has smoked cannabis for a long long time. It isn't toxic and it has several beneficious substances. So why forbid it? >the worst that can happen while stoned is that you waste a lot of time or anger your roommate by eating his cheetos. OTOH, I don't think that's the worst that can happen to you. Heavy frequent use makes people lazy and lose their "sharpness", not very good for programmers. And it's still a drug. What you feel while using it isn't real. But I don't even think it's a point against legalization.

martythemaniak 18y ago

I think the people you're referring to are well aware that it may sound iffy. They use this type of reasoning because they know well that acceptance of marijuana as a legal drug will lead to far laxer rules about marijuana for recreational uses.

jauco 18y ago
I don't agree. The acceptance of morphine (a very pure form of heroine) as a painkiller hasn't really created laxer rules about heroine for recreational uses either.
- narag 18y ago
  The chemical process needed to purify drugs is a qualitative jump.
  - jauco 18y ago
    Using morphine for recreational uses isn't more accepted then heroine.
    - narag 18y ago
      Both morphine and heroine are highly concentrated. I think even the poppies are very strong without too much preparation. If you want a realistic comparison it'd be coca leaves against cocaine. The as-is coca is a mild stimulant used by natives during hundreds or thousands of years for long marchs. The purified cocaine is a strong, potentially addictive drug.
      - jauco 18y ago
        Ah, I misunderstood you previous comment.