5 ms·

Some of those are very valid concerns, others don't really seem like fiascos. Paragon: Epic returned all purchases and made all the assets free on their market

Some of those are very valid concerns, others don't really seem like fiascos. Paragon: Epic returned all purchases and made all the assets free on their marketplace. That seems like a pretty consumer friendly way to shutter a product that wasn't doing well. Exclusives: Paid exclusivity made games like Satisfactory possible, and I believe that all the exclusives are timed? Making games is expensive and unpredictable, exclusives ensure devs can take more risks without worrying about going bankrupt. Security is a serious concern for sure. Acquisitions: As far as I can tell, Psyonix is the only game studio they've bought, and they haven't pulled their game from Steam? Are there others? Tencent ownership: What's the actual concern here? There's a lot of sinophobia in gaming circles these days. There's plenty to be concerned about with the CCP and Tencent, but what's the specific worry about them having a minority stake in Epic? Linux support (Rocket League, Editor, etc.). These are data driven decisions. Rocket League, for instance, had 0.3% playership across Mac and Linux combined. They were updating their game, and fixing bugs for that small of a community just doesn't make financial sense. They issued 100% refunds, which seems pretty reasonable? > Anybody who buys into the UE4 or UE5 ecosystem is probably going to regret it As someone who worked in the industry for years (but never for Epic), I highly doubt this. I've worked with UE, Unity, and CryEngine/Lumberyard and there's a huge difference in support and tooling between them.

arminiusreturns 6y ago
You asked for the negatives, but please don't get me wrong. I really like the interface and many of the features of UE, and the tech behind it. It's just a shame I felt forced to move away from it. Also, please keep in mind I'm not the typical person who is trying to get into gamedev on the side, as I'm a RMS loving, linux-only, most of my stack is gpl sorta dude. On the last point, you may be right, I might have been a bit hyperbolic but there are cases where I have seen it play out. One of my favorite games in the potential department was Mortal Online, but it constantly struggled with UE3 limitations despite official Epic support and moves with Atlas, etc (heres to hoping Mortal Online II using UE4 is good). UE4 has great graphics but as you know there is more to a game than that.
- fartcannon 6y ago
  I think you were totally right. His counter-arguement basically boils down to 'so what' which is pretty bad. Some thing's are more important than others. Buying and removing support for already supported systems is an incredibly anticompetitive move and shouldn't be forgotten.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    First, not 'his'. Second, I explicitly asked for evidence of any of the concerns, as many of the claims either didn't raise a specific concern (e.g. Tencent ownership) or didn't seem to be corroborated by evidence (e.g. Epic buying studios to pull their games off steam). I'll ask you the same, can you provide examples of Epic buying games and removing support for systems? The only example I can find is Rocket League, and that decision was coupled to a desire to remove technical debt and unrelated to Epic's purchase of Psyonix.
    - arminiusreturns 6y ago
      You did not "explicitly ask[...] for evidence of any of the concerns". "I'm trying to think of others, maybe you could expand a bit?"
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  I asked for fiascos, not negatives. I think it's absolutely fair to be critical or disagree with the approaches of Epic. It's one thing to say they made a decision you thought was wrong, it's another thing to call them a 'fiasco', that's all.
  - arminiusreturns 6y ago
    What you may consider a problem I may consider a fiasco. It's a very subjective term. fiasco: a complete failure, bomb, bummer, bust, catastrophe, clinker, clunker, debacle (also débâcle), disaster, dud, failure, fizzle, flop, frost, lemon, loser, miss, shipwreck, turkey, washout What I've said was searchable. Please excuse me if I didn't feel like spending an hour on a single comment. If you want to know you can find the truth of what I've said. > Epic buying games and removing support for systems? I already told you about these. "(Shenmue 3, Outer Wilds, Pheonix Point)" Also some of the issues with such a large investment from a Chinese company "Tencent" seem rather obvious to me at this point, and to insinuate it's a sort of sinophobia just reeks of intellectual disingenuousness.

arminiusreturns 6y ago

You asked for the negatives, but please don't get me wrong. I really like the interface and many of the features of UE, and the tech behind it. It's just a shame I felt forced to move away from it. Also, please keep in mind I'm not the typical person who is trying to get into gamedev on the side, as I'm a RMS loving, linux-only, most of my stack is gpl sorta dude. On the last point, you may be right, I might have been a bit hyperbolic but there are cases where I have seen it play out. One of my favorite games in the potential department was Mortal Online, but it constantly struggled with UE3 limitations despite official Epic support and moves with Atlas, etc (heres to hoping Mortal Online II using UE4 is good). UE4 has great graphics but as you know there is more to a game than that.

fartcannon 6y ago
I think you were totally right. His counter-arguement basically boils down to 'so what' which is pretty bad. Some thing's are more important than others. Buying and removing support for already supported systems is an incredibly anticompetitive move and shouldn't be forgotten.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  First, not 'his'. Second, I explicitly asked for evidence of any of the concerns, as many of the claims either didn't raise a specific concern (e.g. Tencent ownership) or didn't seem to be corroborated by evidence (e.g. Epic buying studios to pull their games off steam). I'll ask you the same, can you provide examples of Epic buying games and removing support for systems? The only example I can find is Rocket League, and that decision was coupled to a desire to remove technical debt and unrelated to Epic's purchase of Psyonix.
  - arminiusreturns 6y ago
    You did not "explicitly ask[...] for evidence of any of the concerns". "I'm trying to think of others, maybe you could expand a bit?"
Pfhreak 6y ago
I asked for fiascos, not negatives. I think it's absolutely fair to be critical or disagree with the approaches of Epic. It's one thing to say they made a decision you thought was wrong, it's another thing to call them a 'fiasco', that's all.
- arminiusreturns 6y ago
  What you may consider a problem I may consider a fiasco. It's a very subjective term. fiasco: a complete failure, bomb, bummer, bust, catastrophe, clinker, clunker, debacle (also débâcle), disaster, dud, failure, fizzle, flop, frost, lemon, loser, miss, shipwreck, turkey, washout What I've said was searchable. Please excuse me if I didn't feel like spending an hour on a single comment. If you want to know you can find the truth of what I've said. > Epic buying games and removing support for systems? I already told you about these. "(Shenmue 3, Outer Wilds, Pheonix Point)" Also some of the issues with such a large investment from a Chinese company "Tencent" seem rather obvious to me at this point, and to insinuate it's a sort of sinophobia just reeks of intellectual disingenuousness.