4 ms·

Ehh, but it's nothing new in the realm of food delivery (not saying that's -right-, mind you.) Pizza delivery drivers have been getting the same bad deal for a

Ehh, but it's nothing new in the realm of food delivery (not saying that's -right-, mind you.) Pizza delivery drivers have been getting the same bad deal for a long time. Most teenagers/young adults who take a delivery job have no idea that they require additional coverage on their vehicle and are one accident away from a lot of financial hardship. You just see/hear about it much more now because rather than a small business offering the bad deal it's a (multi)national company. VC is just providing a way to scale the pain's visibility up.

core-questions 6y ago
Thing is, for a teenager / college student, it made sense as a side job. Bang around in a shitty car, make friends you work with, get a discount on pizza for yourself, get tips under the table with no tax, and enjoy that phase in your life. With these services, it's like as though people somehow expect gig-work - already much less certain than being an employed drivers - to be a career. License and insurance requirements, PPE, and the sheer scale of the middleman operation involved in running a huge app like this - it's nuts to think that it could be done for the same price as the conventional delivery model.
- kurthr 6y ago
  And don't forget, your parents are still subsidizing your insurance... and those tickets don't show up on your record for at least 6 months, if you go to court!
- jfk13 6y ago
  > it made sense as a side job Sure... until an accident happens, you find out that your insurance didn't cover the (undeclared) use for business purposes, and you're liable for somebody's million-dollar medical bills.
  - toxik 6y ago
    Curious as a non-US reader to see what your fear is in this scenario: financial problems
    - lm28469 6y ago
      Not sure where you're from but if you're uninsured and cause an accident in France you're basically fucked. If you injure (yourself or someone else) or destroy public/private property you will have to cover it yourself. Many people end up paying hundred of euros per months for decades if not for their entire life.
      - fragmede 6y ago
        How common is it for French insurance companies to find a way to get out of paying, when a driver they cover gets in an accident?
        lm28469 6y ago
        For any serious accident there will be an investigation to determine is the driver was meeting the insurance conditions. (did he have a valid license, did he take drugs/alcohol, was he on his phone, was the vehicle modified, &c.)
      - chosenbreed37 6y ago
        I'm guessing he would be more concerned about dying or sustaining irreparable physical harm...:-)
      - pkaye 6y ago
        In the US, we often has uninsured driver coverage. If the other driver has no insurance, our own insurance will cover us and then go after the other driver. But if they have no assets they are probably not worth going after as court cases cost money.
      - toxik 6y ago
        That sounds absolutely crazy. Nordic country. You may have to pay damages, but it would not be hundreds of euros for decades, that's just entirely unreasonable.
  - irishcoffee 6y ago
    So your point is, call your insurance company such that you don't commit insurance fraud? I'm struggling to see your gripe.
  - jdsully 6y ago
    You can't get blood from a stone. Or in this case money from a minimum wage pizza delivery driver now without a car.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - olyjohn 6y ago
    Has this ever actually happened? Or is this more of a fear-driven thing that everybody just says? I'd bet money that the insurance company is still on the hook to cover it, but they'll be super quick to drop you.
    - vageli 6y ago
      You would bet money that the insurance would cover it instead of finding a way out of it? What makes you so sure about that? There are examples of homeowner's insurance not covering issues caused by renting on AirBnB, so I would be surprised if motor vehicle insurance was any different.
    - foxyv 6y ago
      Happens a lot for small stuff: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/local/pizza_delivery_insurance_policies/2135315/ https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/local/pizza_delivery_insuran... Not so sure about someone getting saddled with someone elses medical bills.
- throwqqq 6y ago
  This only works if you have a baby boom. Currently there are very few teenagers in the west compared to the 60s or 90s.
- dlhavema 6y ago
  Most Uber drivers I know do it full time that is a side job like pizza delivery kids. The difference is I think people think Uber is a full-time job.
acdha 6y ago
I think there's more than just visibility: the pizza driver at least has a fixed rate which doesn't change all of the time and there isn't a third party hiding part of the billing. Most of the gig apps try to obscure their share of the money, especially from the customer and driver, and anything which has the concept of surge pricing can add noise which makes it harder to understand the impact of changes.
elhudy 6y ago
Ex pizza-delivery driver checking in. I made about $15/hr (incl tips) delivering for dominos in 2007. I drove a $2000 truck and didn't much care about coverage on it. It was the best summer job I ever had.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  If you have nothing, it's highly unlikely you're going to get sued. People who sue always look for the party with the most money, and try to shift the blame to them.
  - rhexs 6y ago
    Not sure why this is downvoted. I’m guessing most pizza delivery drivers are basically judgement proof. Just don’t drink and drive.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- hiram112 6y ago
  That's what I made around year 2000. Though I delivered 'Better Pizza, with Better Ingredients'! Gas was $1/gallon and we got 70¢ per delivery. I asked a friend about 2008 or so, when gas had gotten up to almost $5/gallon briefly (part of the cause of the Great Recession, I'd imagine), and he said they were still getting 70¢ per run. That sucks. Also, only 1/10 orders used credit cards, so nobody paid taxes on tips - all cash. By 2008, I'm guessing it was 1/3 using credit, and now, with apps, it's probably 9/10 using cards. But yeah, it was a sweet gig if you weren't the social / beautiful type to be a successful waiter or waitress / bartender. It paid more and was way more fun than making $6-$8 / hour at McDonalds or Target.
  - elhudy 6y ago
    What crushed us was when dominos implemented the "delivery fee". As drivers we only got ~1/4 of the ~$2 fee per run, but customers began treating it as though it was a tip.
mullingitover 6y ago
> Pizza delivery drivers have been getting the same bad deal for a long time. Ehh, I had a bachelor's degree and did tech support for a fortune 500 company, and I was earning half what my friend made as a pizza delivery driver. s/Pizza delivery drivers/everyone
hardtke 6y ago
Former pizza delivery person (long time ago). Pizza works better economically because it transports better (stays hot longer) and has higher volume. I used to load up 5+ deliveries for the same small area of town. The dispatchers were hopefully good at grouping deliveries.

core-questions 6y ago

Thing is, for a teenager / college student, it made sense as a side job. Bang around in a shitty car, make friends you work with, get a discount on pizza for yourself, get tips under the table with no tax, and enjoy that phase in your life. With these services, it's like as though people somehow expect gig-work - already much less certain than being an employed drivers - to be a career. License and insurance requirements, PPE, and the sheer scale of the middleman operation involved in running a huge app like this - it's nuts to think that it could be done for the same price as the conventional delivery model.

kurthr 6y ago
And don't forget, your parents are still subsidizing your insurance... and those tickets don't show up on your record for at least 6 months, if you go to court!
jfk13 6y ago
> it made sense as a side job Sure... until an accident happens, you find out that your insurance didn't cover the (undeclared) use for business purposes, and you're liable for somebody's million-dollar medical bills.
- toxik 6y ago
  Curious as a non-US reader to see what your fear is in this scenario: financial problems
  - lm28469 6y ago
    Not sure where you're from but if you're uninsured and cause an accident in France you're basically fucked. If you injure (yourself or someone else) or destroy public/private property you will have to cover it yourself. Many people end up paying hundred of euros per months for decades if not for their entire life.
    - fragmede 6y ago
      How common is it for French insurance companies to find a way to get out of paying, when a driver they cover gets in an accident?
      - lm28469 6y ago
        For any serious accident there will be an investigation to determine is the driver was meeting the insurance conditions. (did he have a valid license, did he take drugs/alcohol, was he on his phone, was the vehicle modified, &c.)
    - chosenbreed37 6y ago
      I'm guessing he would be more concerned about dying or sustaining irreparable physical harm...:-)
    - pkaye 6y ago
      In the US, we often has uninsured driver coverage. If the other driver has no insurance, our own insurance will cover us and then go after the other driver. But if they have no assets they are probably not worth going after as court cases cost money.
    - toxik 6y ago
      That sounds absolutely crazy. Nordic country. You may have to pay damages, but it would not be hundreds of euros for decades, that's just entirely unreasonable.
- irishcoffee 6y ago
  So your point is, call your insurance company such that you don't commit insurance fraud? I'm struggling to see your gripe.
- jdsully 6y ago
  You can't get blood from a stone. Or in this case money from a minimum wage pizza delivery driver now without a car.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- olyjohn 6y ago
  Has this ever actually happened? Or is this more of a fear-driven thing that everybody just says? I'd bet money that the insurance company is still on the hook to cover it, but they'll be super quick to drop you.
  - vageli 6y ago
    You would bet money that the insurance would cover it instead of finding a way out of it? What makes you so sure about that? There are examples of homeowner's insurance not covering issues caused by renting on AirBnB, so I would be surprised if motor vehicle insurance was any different.
  - foxyv 6y ago
    Happens a lot for small stuff: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/local/pizza_delivery_insurance_policies/2135315/ https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/local/pizza_delivery_insuran... Not so sure about someone getting saddled with someone elses medical bills.
throwqqq 6y ago
This only works if you have a baby boom. Currently there are very few teenagers in the west compared to the 60s or 90s.
dlhavema 6y ago
Most Uber drivers I know do it full time that is a side job like pizza delivery kids. The difference is I think people think Uber is a full-time job.

acdha 6y ago

I think there's more than just visibility: the pizza driver at least has a fixed rate which doesn't change all of the time and there isn't a third party hiding part of the billing. Most of the gig apps try to obscure their share of the money, especially from the customer and driver, and anything which has the concept of surge pricing can add noise which makes it harder to understand the impact of changes.

elhudy 6y ago

Ex pizza-delivery driver checking in. I made about $15/hr (incl tips) delivering for dominos in 2007. I drove a $2000 truck and didn't much care about coverage on it. It was the best summer job I ever had.

WalterBright 6y ago
If you have nothing, it's highly unlikely you're going to get sued. People who sue always look for the party with the most money, and try to shift the blame to them.
- rhexs 6y ago
  Not sure why this is downvoted. I’m guessing most pizza delivery drivers are basically judgement proof. Just don’t drink and drive.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
hiram112 6y ago
That's what I made around year 2000. Though I delivered 'Better Pizza, with Better Ingredients'! Gas was $1/gallon and we got 70¢ per delivery. I asked a friend about 2008 or so, when gas had gotten up to almost $5/gallon briefly (part of the cause of the Great Recession, I'd imagine), and he said they were still getting 70¢ per run. That sucks. Also, only 1/10 orders used credit cards, so nobody paid taxes on tips - all cash. By 2008, I'm guessing it was 1/3 using credit, and now, with apps, it's probably 9/10 using cards. But yeah, it was a sweet gig if you weren't the social / beautiful type to be a successful waiter or waitress / bartender. It paid more and was way more fun than making $6-$8 / hour at McDonalds or Target.
- elhudy 6y ago
  What crushed us was when dominos implemented the "delivery fee". As drivers we only got ~1/4 of the ~$2 fee per run, but customers began treating it as though it was a tip.

mullingitover 6y ago

> Pizza delivery drivers have been getting the same bad deal for a long time. Ehh, I had a bachelor's degree and did tech support for a fortune 500 company, and I was earning half what my friend made as a pizza delivery driver. s/Pizza delivery drivers/everyone

hardtke 6y ago

Former pizza delivery person (long time ago). Pizza works better economically because it transports better (stays hot longer) and has higher volume. I used to load up 5+ deliveries for the same small area of town. The dispatchers were hopefully good at grouping deliveries.