5 ms·

Just a bit of background first. I bought in heavily to the ue4 ecosystem as soon as UE4 was released, back when it was $20/mo. After about 3 years I had enough

Just a bit of background first. I bought in heavily to the ue4 ecosystem as soon as UE4 was released, back when it was $20/mo. After about 3 years I had enough and moved to godot and blender and being away from that ecosystems it's deficiencies grow ever more glaring. It started with promises that the editor would treat linux as a first class client. Those were lies, as not only did a community fork do more work than epic for years because they refused PRs, but the launcher still hasn't been made available for linux, requiring people to use Windows just to get marketplace assets. Now I get it, linux is a small subset of the community and it's their choice, etc, so I moved on with only a few hundred in marketplace assets lost, my personal choice and not a huge deal... Then there was paragon (at least I got a refund). Then they completely changed fortnite. Then it was just one thing after another. For example, epic was bad enough with exclusives, but they actually even pulled Metro Exodus from steam even after it was taking pre-orders! They promised they wouldn't do it again, and then did it again with Anno 1800. Then they started buying studios to remove old games from steam. They even started "bribing" crowdfunded games that magically moved away from steam despite originally promising steam release. (Shenmue 3, Outer Wilds, Pheonix Point) Their security was breached multiple times, with one single breach being over 9mil accounts. Multiple people with credit card issues who chargedback'ed immediately got a refund and then had their accounts suspended. (epic getting around chargeback fees). Epic is ~%40 owned by Tencent and has been found to do questionable things on systems. https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_g... https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-steam-data-reddit/ https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-steam-data-reddit/ They bought easy anti cheat (EAC) and then completely stopped all efforts to support linux (Valve had been in talks with them and discussing the linux issue). (a pretty big deal for the linux community as it affects many games present and future) They started paying off mods at the fortnitebr reddit sub which caused a mod exodus and a lot of hubub. Tim Sweeney on linux: "Installing Linux is sort of the equivalent of moving to Canada when one doesn’t like US political trends. Nope, we’ve got to fight for the freedoms we have today, where we have them today." Tim Sweeney doesn't understand the difference between first and third party: "Steam’s the largest PC store and already has PC exclusives such as DOTA2, Counterstrike, and Portal. Valve has every right to make deals with developers and publishers to secure more exclusives, just as Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Epic Games do!" They bought "views" on youtube at least a few times (see Shenmue 3 trailer) There is no gifting in the epic game store, and if you use the same payment on other accounts (like family) they will lock that payment method. They killed Rocket League on linux and macos. The epic games store barely functions, with no user reviews and plans for the devs to "opt in" reviews so they can select only the reviews they like. They did enable OpenCritic reviews though. Broken or no cloud saves, achievements, mod support, forums, or wishlists. This is only a partial list! It wasn't until 2019 that the Fortnight dev crunch thing came up, and honestly just calling it a "crunch" doesn't seem to do the issue justice when contractors were under a culture of fear to work 70-100 hr work weeks! When someone has a repeated pattern of abuse and lies and gaslighting, you can be sure thats what they will continue to do in the future, and that is what both Epic and Tim Sweeney have and are going to continue to do. Anybody who buys into the UE4 or UE5 ecosystem is probably going to regret it... unless Epic pays them off like they have plenty of times before.

Pfhreak 6y ago
Some of those are very valid concerns, others don't really seem like fiascos. Paragon: Epic returned all purchases and made all the assets free on their marketplace. That seems like a pretty consumer friendly way to shutter a product that wasn't doing well. Exclusives: Paid exclusivity made games like Satisfactory possible, and I believe that all the exclusives are timed? Making games is expensive and unpredictable, exclusives ensure devs can take more risks without worrying about going bankrupt. Security is a serious concern for sure. Acquisitions: As far as I can tell, Psyonix is the only game studio they've bought, and they haven't pulled their game from Steam? Are there others? Tencent ownership: What's the actual concern here? There's a lot of sinophobia in gaming circles these days. There's plenty to be concerned about with the CCP and Tencent, but what's the specific worry about them having a minority stake in Epic? Linux support (Rocket League, Editor, etc.). These are data driven decisions. Rocket League, for instance, had 0.3% playership across Mac and Linux combined. They were updating their game, and fixing bugs for that small of a community just doesn't make financial sense. They issued 100% refunds, which seems pretty reasonable? > Anybody who buys into the UE4 or UE5 ecosystem is probably going to regret it As someone who worked in the industry for years (but never for Epic), I highly doubt this. I've worked with UE, Unity, and CryEngine/Lumberyard and there's a huge difference in support and tooling between them.
- arminiusreturns 6y ago
  You asked for the negatives, but please don't get me wrong. I really like the interface and many of the features of UE, and the tech behind it. It's just a shame I felt forced to move away from it. Also, please keep in mind I'm not the typical person who is trying to get into gamedev on the side, as I'm a RMS loving, linux-only, most of my stack is gpl sorta dude. On the last point, you may be right, I might have been a bit hyperbolic but there are cases where I have seen it play out. One of my favorite games in the potential department was Mortal Online, but it constantly struggled with UE3 limitations despite official Epic support and moves with Atlas, etc (heres to hoping Mortal Online II using UE4 is good). UE4 has great graphics but as you know there is more to a game than that.
  - 6y ago

Pfhreak 6y ago

Some of those are very valid concerns, others don't really seem like fiascos. Paragon: Epic returned all purchases and made all the assets free on their marketplace. That seems like a pretty consumer friendly way to shutter a product that wasn't doing well. Exclusives: Paid exclusivity made games like Satisfactory possible, and I believe that all the exclusives are timed? Making games is expensive and unpredictable, exclusives ensure devs can take more risks without worrying about going bankrupt. Security is a serious concern for sure. Acquisitions: As far as I can tell, Psyonix is the only game studio they've bought, and they haven't pulled their game from Steam? Are there others? Tencent ownership: What's the actual concern here? There's a lot of sinophobia in gaming circles these days. There's plenty to be concerned about with the CCP and Tencent, but what's the specific worry about them having a minority stake in Epic? Linux support (Rocket League, Editor, etc.). These are data driven decisions. Rocket League, for instance, had 0.3% playership across Mac and Linux combined. They were updating their game, and fixing bugs for that small of a community just doesn't make financial sense. They issued 100% refunds, which seems pretty reasonable? > Anybody who buys into the UE4 or UE5 ecosystem is probably going to regret it As someone who worked in the industry for years (but never for Epic), I highly doubt this. I've worked with UE, Unity, and CryEngine/Lumberyard and there's a huge difference in support and tooling between them.

arminiusreturns 6y ago
You asked for the negatives, but please don't get me wrong. I really like the interface and many of the features of UE, and the tech behind it. It's just a shame I felt forced to move away from it. Also, please keep in mind I'm not the typical person who is trying to get into gamedev on the side, as I'm a RMS loving, linux-only, most of my stack is gpl sorta dude. On the last point, you may be right, I might have been a bit hyperbolic but there are cases where I have seen it play out. One of my favorite games in the potential department was Mortal Online, but it constantly struggled with UE3 limitations despite official Epic support and moves with Atlas, etc (heres to hoping Mortal Online II using UE4 is good). UE4 has great graphics but as you know there is more to a game than that.
- 6y ago