5 ms·

"Others can't just up and quit so they comply." Who are these others? Are you suggesting they do not have the ability to decide if they want to continue workin

"Others can't just up and quit so they comply." Who are these others? Are you suggesting they do not have the ability to decide if they want to continue working?

HumblyTossed 6y ago
I'm sorry, but do I really have to answer these questions? How is it people still don't understand there's a huge segment of the working population who just can't up and quit a job?
- _curious_ 6y ago
  Point to a single person who cannot quit their job right now?
  - salawat 6y ago
    Point to an example of a company that's taking a bailout that can't just bootstrap themselves to go without a bailout right now. I'll wait. Same thing. The capability to make the decision may be present, but an unwillingness to acknowledge that there are practical limits to the capability to execute on that decision without jeopardizing the decider's capability to fulfill higher priority commitments (family/self safety, food, transport, shelter, medical care) demonstrates a malicious willingness to indulge in the discount of the interests of others when it is to the convenience of oneself. Just to head it off; no, morally speaking, it is your problem when you know they have no other options. You are just as much a contributor to their state of affairs through employment of abusive labor practices as they are. You drag down everyone by going above and beyond to lower the bar of acceptable business practices. If that doesn't concern you the least bit, then I'm not sure continued conversation will be fruitful in any way.
  - evilolive 6y ago
    Are you being extremely obtuse on purpose? Not everyone is an engineer who have employers fawning over them. A lot of people have few prospects of employment - especially right now - and have bills to pay. So weighing the two options : no food this month, or installing spyware willingly they take the easiest route.
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      "... A lot of people have few prospects of employment - especially right now - and have bills to pay." Have you considered that you may be engaging with and replying to someone who falls into this category? What makes you think I am or speaking from the POV of an engineer who has employers fawning over them? Beyond that though - why do you think that people do not have the ability to exercise their own choice in the matter? The final paragraph of this article literally underscores my point: "Rather than download the software on her computer, she opted out." So your assumptions of who you are interacting with on this topic appear ignorant, your belief in other people inability to choose whats best for them suggests you do not respect their power, meanwhile you've created the only extreme - as in extremely unlikely scenario - whereby people are forced to choose between self-administered surveillance or starvation.
      - evilolive 6y ago
        So is it the case? Do you have very few prospects of employments and yet would willingly chose living in poverty over surveillance of your laptop? I don't think it's as unlikely as you seem to believe. There are no stats being brought forward on either side, so I don't see how your scenario is less or more likely than mine. And I am merely trying to empathize with the people for whom this is the sad reality.
        _curious_ 6y ago
        I'm not convinced whatsoever that this surveil or starve ultimatum you have made up represents anyone's reality in the first place...let alone those examples in this article.
        evilolive 6y ago
        It's beyond your imagination to conceive that there are people who would have to accept something they loathe because they must feed their family and pay the mortgage in a very immediate future? I'm totally open to changing my mind that this hypothetical person doesn't exist in the US, if you'd like to bring forward a peer reviewed study on the subject.
  - wolco 6y ago
    The one supporting a family. The one who has bills. Someone who likes to eat. Do you live at home still?
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      Spoiler: they can all quit if they decide to!
    - 0xffff2 6y ago
      >Do you live at home still? That's a curious question. Don't most people live "at home"? I'm guessing you mean "do you live with your parents still". Do most people consider their parent's house(s) "home" even after they move out? I sure don't.
      - wolco 6y ago
        By living at home, I mean supported by parents. Basic needs are met automatically
        _curious_ 6y ago
        No, I moved out and 2000 miles away when I was 18
        wolco 6y ago
        Hard to travel 2000 miles on foot without eating. Or land that first job without proper clothes. Either you had support or after you found that suitcase full of money things were probably easier.
        _curious_ 6y ago
        What is the benefit of assuming things about other people whom you do not know? I brought what clothes I had previously purchased myself from a minimum wage job I held for a few years prior. Growing up, if we wanted something, we worked for it (physical labor beginning around age 13). After moving out, I didn't eat much/well for a while there and got into debt because I didn't have a stable job/steady income for years to come. When I realized that the subsidized housing that I landed was contingent upon providing "favors" to the landlord, I elected to go homeless at age 19. Couchsurfing, van life, camping, etc. Way of the road... A couple years later I would file for bankruptcy flat broke - financially & morally. The story continues for years of trial and tribulation without any familial or government support because I realized that dependencies are antithetical to personal growth and development. Eventually, I started my a company and during the first three years I worked on that for 60 hrs a week while netting less than minimum wage (eventually it paid off when I sold). No-one is an island. It was because I opted-into (and out of) certain situations and relationships along the way (and developed proper human relations + work ethic) some amazing people extended their support at the right place in time. They will never be forgotten and are reminded to this day of the roles they had in shaping my world. I earned the trust and respect in every one of those relationships, those breaks, and those helping hands. Establishing self-agency is step #1. Learning and living a life of self-reliance is #2. Once you accept, understand, and embody - there is nothing one cannot do and that is my message.
devdas 6y ago
People whose other option is starving?

"Others can't just up and quit so they comply." Who are these others? Are you suggesting they do not have the ability to decide if they want to continue working?

HumblyTossed 6y ago

I'm sorry, but do I really have to answer these questions? How is it people still don't understand there's a huge segment of the working population who just can't up and quit a job?

_curious_ 6y ago
Point to a single person who cannot quit their job right now?
- salawat 6y ago
  Point to an example of a company that's taking a bailout that can't just bootstrap themselves to go without a bailout right now. I'll wait. Same thing. The capability to make the decision may be present, but an unwillingness to acknowledge that there are practical limits to the capability to execute on that decision without jeopardizing the decider's capability to fulfill higher priority commitments (family/self safety, food, transport, shelter, medical care) demonstrates a malicious willingness to indulge in the discount of the interests of others when it is to the convenience of oneself. Just to head it off; no, morally speaking, it is your problem when you know they have no other options. You are just as much a contributor to their state of affairs through employment of abusive labor practices as they are. You drag down everyone by going above and beyond to lower the bar of acceptable business practices. If that doesn't concern you the least bit, then I'm not sure continued conversation will be fruitful in any way.
- evilolive 6y ago
  Are you being extremely obtuse on purpose? Not everyone is an engineer who have employers fawning over them. A lot of people have few prospects of employment - especially right now - and have bills to pay. So weighing the two options : no food this month, or installing spyware willingly they take the easiest route.
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    "... A lot of people have few prospects of employment - especially right now - and have bills to pay." Have you considered that you may be engaging with and replying to someone who falls into this category? What makes you think I am or speaking from the POV of an engineer who has employers fawning over them? Beyond that though - why do you think that people do not have the ability to exercise their own choice in the matter? The final paragraph of this article literally underscores my point: "Rather than download the software on her computer, she opted out." So your assumptions of who you are interacting with on this topic appear ignorant, your belief in other people inability to choose whats best for them suggests you do not respect their power, meanwhile you've created the only extreme - as in extremely unlikely scenario - whereby people are forced to choose between self-administered surveillance or starvation.
    - evilolive 6y ago
      So is it the case? Do you have very few prospects of employments and yet would willingly chose living in poverty over surveillance of your laptop? I don't think it's as unlikely as you seem to believe. There are no stats being brought forward on either side, so I don't see how your scenario is less or more likely than mine. And I am merely trying to empathize with the people for whom this is the sad reality.
      - _curious_ 6y ago
        I'm not convinced whatsoever that this surveil or starve ultimatum you have made up represents anyone's reality in the first place...let alone those examples in this article.
        evilolive 6y ago
        It's beyond your imagination to conceive that there are people who would have to accept something they loathe because they must feed their family and pay the mortgage in a very immediate future? I'm totally open to changing my mind that this hypothetical person doesn't exist in the US, if you'd like to bring forward a peer reviewed study on the subject.
- wolco 6y ago
  The one supporting a family. The one who has bills. Someone who likes to eat. Do you live at home still?
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    Spoiler: they can all quit if they decide to!
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    >Do you live at home still? That's a curious question. Don't most people live "at home"? I'm guessing you mean "do you live with your parents still". Do most people consider their parent's house(s) "home" even after they move out? I sure don't.
    - wolco 6y ago
      By living at home, I mean supported by parents. Basic needs are met automatically
      - _curious_ 6y ago
        No, I moved out and 2000 miles away when I was 18
        wolco 6y ago
        Hard to travel 2000 miles on foot without eating. Or land that first job without proper clothes. Either you had support or after you found that suitcase full of money things were probably easier.
        _curious_ 6y ago
        What is the benefit of assuming things about other people whom you do not know? I brought what clothes I had previously purchased myself from a minimum wage job I held for a few years prior. Growing up, if we wanted something, we worked for it (physical labor beginning around age 13). After moving out, I didn't eat much/well for a while there and got into debt because I didn't have a stable job/steady income for years to come. When I realized that the subsidized housing that I landed was contingent upon providing "favors" to the landlord, I elected to go homeless at age 19. Couchsurfing, van life, camping, etc. Way of the road... A couple years later I would file for bankruptcy flat broke - financially & morally. The story continues for years of trial and tribulation without any familial or government support because I realized that dependencies are antithetical to personal growth and development. Eventually, I started my a company and during the first three years I worked on that for 60 hrs a week while netting less than minimum wage (eventually it paid off when I sold). No-one is an island. It was because I opted-into (and out of) certain situations and relationships along the way (and developed proper human relations + work ethic) some amazing people extended their support at the right place in time. They will never be forgotten and are reminded to this day of the roles they had in shaping my world. I earned the trust and respect in every one of those relationships, those breaks, and those helping hands. Establishing self-agency is step #1. Learning and living a life of self-reliance is #2. Once you accept, understand, and embody - there is nothing one cannot do and that is my message.

devdas 6y ago

People whose other option is starving?