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Everyone has a choice: yes or no. Consequences may vary, but then again, no-one is owed anything legally, morally, or otherwise so to act as though every indiv

Everyone has a choice: yes or no. Consequences may vary, but then again, no-one is owed anything legally, morally, or otherwise so to act as though every individual does not have or exercise their own self-agency is disingenuous.

bo1024 6y ago
I strongly disagree. There are certain human rights that it is immoral and illegal to contract away. The common example is that selling yourself into slavery is illegal even though people have self-agency. Over time we have decided on others so for example it is illegal to take a job that disallows bathroom breaks or violates certain safety standards. It's also not legal as far as I know to take jobs with certain consequences for quitting, like "we break into your house and kill your family". Although, "we will ensure your family starves" may be an unwritten one. Also, it is disingenuous at least to say every has their own "self-agency", but "Consequences may vary." I would agree it's a sliding scale because people's chioces imply different levels of consequences for losing one's job (for example if you bought an expensive mortgage versus not). But morally, and legally as well, we certainly owe people the ability to make actually free choices without metaphorical guns to their heads.
- _curious_ 6y ago
  Thanks for strongly (and respectfully) disagreeing out loud instead of being one who just downvotes without the courage to provide an alternate view/retort!
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    > just downvotes without the courage to provide an alternate view/retort It's not about courage. It's usually that someone else has already provided the same alternate view/retort, so there's no sense in starting a new comment branch.
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      you show great courage stronglikedan!
t-writescode 6y ago
This comment ignores the very real material realities that many people have around being able to afford life at all. While it is fair that "no one is 'owed' anything, legally" - actually, even that's wrong, but I'll pretend it's right for the sake of argument, some people are in situations where there is a single job in town, they do not have the money to move, and they have kids to feed. They cannot quit.
- _curious_ 6y ago
  "where there is a single job in town" could you please point to such town in the US? Not having money to move and mouths to feed...that is whose responsibility/issue...an employers? A neighbors? Yours? Mine? And yes, they can quit if they choose to. There will be trade-offs and consequences, but they 100% absolutely can quit!
  - evilolive 6y ago
    So .. can you rationalize in the same manner why the employees in the NPR story haven't quit yet? Is it cowardice? Is it because they think they can't do better than what they have?
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      It literally says: "Rather than download the software on her computer, she opted out." That's all I'm saying, everyone has and makes their own choices about what they will or won't put up with. As to other article subjects , I can't/won't speak for them.
      - evilolive 6y ago
        So you can only speak of those who serve your point?
        _curious_ 6y ago
        Can you find a person who is not choosing one way or the other? My point is we all get to choose...and im not saying there are not trade-offs, or its easy, etc. But you, me, those mentioned in this article (and those who will never be notices/mentioned) we all have the power of choice! Can we agree on that fundamental fact already?
dang 6y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23168440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23168440.

bo1024 6y ago

I strongly disagree. There are certain human rights that it is immoral and illegal to contract away. The common example is that selling yourself into slavery is illegal even though people have self-agency. Over time we have decided on others so for example it is illegal to take a job that disallows bathroom breaks or violates certain safety standards. It's also not legal as far as I know to take jobs with certain consequences for quitting, like "we break into your house and kill your family". Although, "we will ensure your family starves" may be an unwritten one. Also, it is disingenuous at least to say every has their own "self-agency", but "Consequences may vary." I would agree it's a sliding scale because people's chioces imply different levels of consequences for losing one's job (for example if you bought an expensive mortgage versus not). But morally, and legally as well, we certainly owe people the ability to make actually free choices without metaphorical guns to their heads.

_curious_ 6y ago
Thanks for strongly (and respectfully) disagreeing out loud instead of being one who just downvotes without the courage to provide an alternate view/retort!
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  > just downvotes without the courage to provide an alternate view/retort It's not about courage. It's usually that someone else has already provided the same alternate view/retort, so there's no sense in starting a new comment branch.
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    you show great courage stronglikedan!

t-writescode 6y ago

This comment ignores the very real material realities that many people have around being able to afford life at all. While it is fair that "no one is 'owed' anything, legally" - actually, even that's wrong, but I'll pretend it's right for the sake of argument, some people are in situations where there is a single job in town, they do not have the money to move, and they have kids to feed. They cannot quit.

_curious_ 6y ago
"where there is a single job in town" could you please point to such town in the US? Not having money to move and mouths to feed...that is whose responsibility/issue...an employers? A neighbors? Yours? Mine? And yes, they can quit if they choose to. There will be trade-offs and consequences, but they 100% absolutely can quit!
- evilolive 6y ago
  So .. can you rationalize in the same manner why the employees in the NPR story haven't quit yet? Is it cowardice? Is it because they think they can't do better than what they have?
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    It literally says: "Rather than download the software on her computer, she opted out." That's all I'm saying, everyone has and makes their own choices about what they will or won't put up with. As to other article subjects , I can't/won't speak for them.
    - evilolive 6y ago
      So you can only speak of those who serve your point?
      - _curious_ 6y ago
        Can you find a person who is not choosing one way or the other? My point is we all get to choose...and im not saying there are not trade-offs, or its easy, etc. But you, me, those mentioned in this article (and those who will never be notices/mentioned) we all have the power of choice! Can we agree on that fundamental fact already?

dang 6y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23168440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23168440.