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> Government overreach is dangerous too. SpaceX is currently asking for government handouts: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-12/spacex-musk-cal

> Government overreach is dangerous too. SpaceX is currently asking for government handouts: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-12/spacex-musk-california https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-12/spacex-mus... There's no honest fight for truth, justice, and the American way in anything Elon is doing. It's just a company trying to get what it can and give as little as possible back. Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
How is SpaceX asking for economic support, minimal economic support (only $600k!?), not reasonable because Tesla pushed back against unreasonable county regulation by Alameda County? Did we forget the Federal Reserve is dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into the bond markets to prop up Boeing [1], Ford [2], and other exceptionally poorly run entrenched businesses who were lucky enough to have large amounts of debt issued? [1] https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/the-non-bailout-how-the-fed-saved-boeing-without-paying-a-dime https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/the-non-bailout-how-... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/surging-ford-bonds-lead-credit-143711446.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/surging-ford-bonds-lead-credi...
- clouddrover 7y ago
  How much twitter drama has Ford indulged in lately? Elon whining about public health measures being "fascist", threatening to leave California, and then going cap in hand for more public money from the state he claims is limiting his "freedoms" is not just a bad joke, it's farcical.
  - ta999999171 7y ago
    I don't feel this addresses your parent's point.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    The benchmark is results, not your public image. Where is Boeing's Crew Dragon/Falcon Heavy/Reusable Falcon 9/StarLink constellation? Where is Ford's EV manufacturing capacity and charger network? When you are an innovator, you get some latitude to shit post. The public may not look fondly upon your antics, but shareholders have stood behind Musk (and if results continue, will likely continue to do so). California needs Tesla and SpaceX more than they need California. The rest of the world (China, Germany for Gigafactories, several countries have begged for one), and other states (Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado all have incentives to Tesla on offer), have shown they're willing to accommodate. No one is rushing to do the same for failing behemoths such as Boeing and Ford (both of whom are performing substantial layoffs, [1] [2]). There is a balance to be struck between operational flexibility and public safety. IMHO, Alameda County overreached. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23021873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23021873 [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/11/ford-f11.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/11/ford-f11.html
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      Elon has no loyalty to you. You're wasting your time being so slavishly loyal to him. You need not be his spaniel.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I have no loyalty to Elon. It just so happens our interests align (mitigating climate change, electrification of transportation, rapid deployment of utility scale energy storage, the commodification of heavy lift to orbit). If you were doing these things, I'd support you. But you're not. Most aren't. I support those that are doing this work, necessary work. Elon would not be my first pick, but unfortunately, he’s the only pick at this scale. "The Devil You Know."
        clouddrover 7y ago
        > It just so happens our interests align They don't and never will align. He is a narcissistic attention-seeker. You don't figure into that. The excuses you're making for him are embarrassing.
kanox 7y ago
SpaceX is doing nothing wrong. If California wants to spend money on training people for new jobs and SpaceX participates then the funds are being spent exactly the way the government wants and achieving the government's objectives (increased employment). California also wants to subsidize electric cars in order to have less pollution and Tesla makes such cars. Those subsidies are being spent by the government and accomplishing government goals. This in no way obligates Elon or his companies to support government policy in other areas.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

How is SpaceX asking for economic support, minimal economic support (only $600k!?), not reasonable because Tesla pushed back against unreasonable county regulation by Alameda County? Did we forget the Federal Reserve is dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into the bond markets to prop up Boeing [1], Ford [2], and other exceptionally poorly run entrenched businesses who were lucky enough to have large amounts of debt issued? [1] https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/the-non-bailout-how-the-fed-saved-boeing-without-paying-a-dime https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/the-non-bailout-how-... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/surging-ford-bonds-lead-credit-143711446.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/surging-ford-bonds-lead-credi...

clouddrover 7y ago
How much twitter drama has Ford indulged in lately? Elon whining about public health measures being "fascist", threatening to leave California, and then going cap in hand for more public money from the state he claims is limiting his "freedoms" is not just a bad joke, it's farcical.
- ta999999171 7y ago
  I don't feel this addresses your parent's point.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  The benchmark is results, not your public image. Where is Boeing's Crew Dragon/Falcon Heavy/Reusable Falcon 9/StarLink constellation? Where is Ford's EV manufacturing capacity and charger network? When you are an innovator, you get some latitude to shit post. The public may not look fondly upon your antics, but shareholders have stood behind Musk (and if results continue, will likely continue to do so). California needs Tesla and SpaceX more than they need California. The rest of the world (China, Germany for Gigafactories, several countries have begged for one), and other states (Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and Colorado all have incentives to Tesla on offer), have shown they're willing to accommodate. No one is rushing to do the same for failing behemoths such as Boeing and Ford (both of whom are performing substantial layoffs, [1] [2]). There is a balance to be struck between operational flexibility and public safety. IMHO, Alameda County overreached. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23021873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23021873 [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/11/ford-f11.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/11/ford-f11.html
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Elon has no loyalty to you. You're wasting your time being so slavishly loyal to him. You need not be his spaniel.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      I have no loyalty to Elon. It just so happens our interests align (mitigating climate change, electrification of transportation, rapid deployment of utility scale energy storage, the commodification of heavy lift to orbit). If you were doing these things, I'd support you. But you're not. Most aren't. I support those that are doing this work, necessary work. Elon would not be my first pick, but unfortunately, he’s the only pick at this scale. "The Devil You Know."
      - clouddrover 7y ago
        > It just so happens our interests align They don't and never will align. He is a narcissistic attention-seeker. You don't figure into that. The excuses you're making for him are embarrassing.

kanox 7y ago

SpaceX is doing nothing wrong. If California wants to spend money on training people for new jobs and SpaceX participates then the funds are being spent exactly the way the government wants and achieving the government's objectives (increased employment). California also wants to subsidize electric cars in order to have less pollution and Tesla makes such cars. Those subsidies are being spent by the government and accomplishing government goals. This in no way obligates Elon or his companies to support government policy in other areas.