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> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that stil

> extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple's bullshit (which really only started around 10.13 onwards), and I see more and more non-Logic users willing to make the switch to Windows.

whatok 6y ago
Even a larger company like Ableton is not supporting the previous version of Live in Catalina and won't release any updates for it: https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803 https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803 The grandparent suggests that conservative users are to blame on this and that's partially true but it's not out of irrationality. If you are charging by the hour, you cannot afford any downtime. Studios run extremely lean teams and don't necessarily have a tech person on hand to fix things. If they find a configuration that works, they're going to stick to it.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  Why would they update Live 9 though? For users that do want to upgrade their operating system (and audio users are notoriously bad for staying on old versions, for reasons you already noted) there is a clear upgrade path.
renaudg 6y ago
I didn't ignore it, I specifically added "while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer" Each year between June-September, I see release notes for indie software like CleanMyMac, Gemini, Hazel... with fixes and improvements for the upcoming macOS. They seem to welcome new stuff with a sense of excitement and eagerness. In the audio world, there is an attitude of conservatism and an untold expectation that users are always several versions behind, that I haven't seen in any other field I care about.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  The differences are: - those small developers only have 1 or 2 products to update - audio devs generally have a larger set of products - audio devs need to keep creating new stuff, it's kind of hard to just rest on your laurels (with some exceptions) in that space I see it from both sides of the coin: as a user it annoys me that every year my inbox gets crushed under the weight of "DON'T UPGRADE!!!1!" mail outs, and as a solo developer it's hard to update all my products AND find time to create something new. I'd rather not be one of the developers who just sunsets products because they can't be bothered to continue updating them.

whatok 6y ago

Even a larger company like Ableton is not supporting the previous version of Live in Catalina and won't release any updates for it: https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803 https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235803 The grandparent suggests that conservative users are to blame on this and that's partially true but it's not out of irrationality. If you are charging by the hour, you cannot afford any downtime. Studios run extremely lean teams and don't necessarily have a tech person on hand to fix things. If they find a configuration that works, they're going to stick to it.

richrichardsson 6y ago
Why would they update Live 9 though? For users that do want to upgrade their operating system (and audio users are notoriously bad for staying on old versions, for reasons you already noted) there is a clear upgrade path.

renaudg 6y ago

I didn't ignore it, I specifically added "while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer" Each year between June-September, I see release notes for indie software like CleanMyMac, Gemini, Hazel... with fixes and improvements for the upcoming macOS. They seem to welcome new stuff with a sense of excitement and eagerness. In the audio world, there is an attitude of conservatism and an untold expectation that users are always several versions behind, that I haven't seen in any other field I care about.

richrichardsson 6y ago
The differences are: - those small developers only have 1 or 2 products to update - audio devs generally have a larger set of products - audio devs need to keep creating new stuff, it's kind of hard to just rest on your laurels (with some exceptions) in that space I see it from both sides of the coin: as a user it annoys me that every year my inbox gets crushed under the weight of "DON'T UPGRADE!!!1!" mail outs, and as a solo developer it's hard to update all my products AND find time to create something new. I'd rather not be one of the developers who just sunsets products because they can't be bothered to continue updating them.