3 ms·

I did a JVM targeting language as a research project, and was involved into porting KVM to an obscure architecture. It's been a while of course (early 00s) so m

by varjag 7y ago

I did a JVM targeting language as a research project, and was involved into porting KVM to an obscure architecture. It's been a while of course (early 00s) so maybe I misremember something or there were huge strides of progress in JVM. Can you jump over 64Kb in bytecode yet? Allocate a lexically scoped variable? Of course, enormous amount of work has been put into making this particular pig fly at reasonable speed. Doesn't change the fact that most usability complaints about Clojure stem from reliance on JVM piggybacking.

nisa 7y ago
so what's better and out there and reasonable stable?
- varjag 7y ago
  x86-64
  - fouc 7y ago
    market share is going to ARM
    - varjag 7y ago
      ARM is nice too, I concur
- zelphirkalt 7y ago
  Probably BeamVM, giving you better options for scaling, abstracting away machine borders and lightweight processes.
  - ethelward 7y ago
    BeamVM is much worse than the JVM in the raw computing performances department.
    - zelphirkalt 7y ago
      As far as I know, people in the Erlang world tend to use NIFs for computation heavy tasks: http://erlang.org/doc/tutorial/nif.html http://erlang.org/doc/tutorial/nif.html However, I have not done that myself, so I cannot tell from experience how that works.
smt88 7y ago
From the narrow scope of web development, JVM is fine. Kotlin is able to have every ergonomic feature you'd want from a language, and it gets closer to the performance of C in TechEmpower than many other languages (notably C#, Node, and Python, three of the most popular languages). Tuning can be a pain, but scaling anything is hard.
- varjag 7y ago
  It is clear that a lot of very important and practical work had been delivered with Java/JVM. But the original point was not about what is possible, but what is optimal. Kotlin, from the little I've seen, appears to be largely a syntactic variation of Java, so there is certainly good impedance to JVM. Clojure is less so, and here lies the reason everyone curses about its backtraces.

by varjag 7y ago

nisa 7y ago

so what's better and out there and reasonable stable?

varjag 7y ago
x86-64
- fouc 7y ago
  market share is going to ARM
  - varjag 7y ago
    ARM is nice too, I concur
zelphirkalt 7y ago
Probably BeamVM, giving you better options for scaling, abstracting away machine borders and lightweight processes.
- ethelward 7y ago
  BeamVM is much worse than the JVM in the raw computing performances department.
  - zelphirkalt 7y ago
    As far as I know, people in the Erlang world tend to use NIFs for computation heavy tasks: http://erlang.org/doc/tutorial/nif.html http://erlang.org/doc/tutorial/nif.html However, I have not done that myself, so I cannot tell from experience how that works.

smt88 7y ago

From the narrow scope of web development, JVM is fine. Kotlin is able to have every ergonomic feature you'd want from a language, and it gets closer to the performance of C in TechEmpower than many other languages (notably C#, Node, and Python, three of the most popular languages). Tuning can be a pain, but scaling anything is hard.

varjag 7y ago
It is clear that a lot of very important and practical work had been delivered with Java/JVM. But the original point was not about what is possible, but what is optimal. Kotlin, from the little I've seen, appears to be largely a syntactic variation of Java, so there is certainly good impedance to JVM. Clojure is less so, and here lies the reason everyone curses about its backtraces.