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Roger Penrose is probably the most interesting thinkers on this problem, and I lead towards his conclusions -- that consciousness is a byproduct of biology -- n

Roger Penrose is probably the most interesting thinkers on this problem, and I lead towards his conclusions -- that consciousness is a byproduct of biology -- not intelligence or computation. Highly recommend his book Shadows of the Mind -- it's on my list. In summary he believes that consciousness isn't a by-product of computation done by neurons (the traditional view), but rather quantum level effects created by MAP proteins within the brain as a result of this computation: But perhaps the most interesting wrinkle in Shadows of the Mind is Penrose's excursion into microbiology, where he examines cytoskeletons and microtubules, minute substructures lying deep within the brain's neurons. (He argues that microtubules--not neurons--may indeed be the basic units of the brain, which, if nothing else, would dramatically increase the brain's computational power.) Furthermore, he contends that in consciousness some kind of global quantum state must take place across large areas of the brain, and that it within microtubules that these collective quantum effects are most likely to reside.

ladberg 6y ago
I get that Roger Penrose is an incredibly smart guy, but I really don't see how he comes to the conclusion that there are any quantum effects in the brain. Even if there are, I don't see how they are necessary in any way for consciousness. It seems like he took ideas from an area he's an expert in (math/physics) and tried to apply it to biology without considering how much of a different level they're on. To put it in CS terms, it's like a genius electrical engineer who could design a complex circuit but doesn't know much about computers as whole saw a video of a kid playing Minecraft. He/she might assume that to be able to run such a complex system you would need specialized quantum/superconductor/graphene/whatever circuit, but in reality it's just the same classic building blocks at a higher level. Consciousness is just a biological process, but it's abstracted so far away from the physics it's built upon that a physicist might have trouble seeing it.

ladberg 6y ago

I get that Roger Penrose is an incredibly smart guy, but I really don't see how he comes to the conclusion that there are any quantum effects in the brain. Even if there are, I don't see how they are necessary in any way for consciousness. It seems like he took ideas from an area he's an expert in (math/physics) and tried to apply it to biology without considering how much of a different level they're on. To put it in CS terms, it's like a genius electrical engineer who could design a complex circuit but doesn't know much about computers as whole saw a video of a kid playing Minecraft. He/she might assume that to be able to run such a complex system you would need specialized quantum/superconductor/graphene/whatever circuit, but in reality it's just the same classic building blocks at a higher level. Consciousness is just a biological process, but it's abstracted so far away from the physics it's built upon that a physicist might have trouble seeing it.