5 ms·

What's stopping someone from moving to SF for higher comp on hiring, then getting a P.O. box or friend's mailing address in SF and moving back to work from lowe

by sizzle 7y ago

What's stopping someone from moving to SF for higher comp on hiring, then getting a P.O. box or friend's mailing address in SF and moving back to work from lower cost area after some time? Is your employer really going to decrease your salary after the fact? Can you file taxes in your lower cost of living state after you lock in your high SF comp package and never notify your employer but still pay your taxes in the state you moved back to? Note: I don't condone illegal behavior just thinking of edge cases that benefit us tech workers.

ElysianEagle 7y ago
I’m guessing you’re being downvoted by those who think your comment is encouraging unethical behavior. While I certainly don’t think it’s ethical to do so, I did wonder the same thing - would companies start putting measures in place to verify you’re working from the same general area as your initially provided address? Eg, sifting through VPN log files to geo locate IP addresses etc.
- nostrademons 7y ago
  They don't care as long as you show up to critical work meetings and are available when you need them for high-profile projects. I had a coworker (while at Google) who moved to Uganda without telling his manager, because he felt like it. His manager called a meeting for the next day, he hopped on a plane that night, showed up for the meeting, flew back to Uganda afterwards until he got bored there, and his manager was never the wiser, except for it being a great story for friends to tell. What's stopping people is largely that a.) if you aren't in the office, you miss out on critical opportunities, and if you aren't in the office too much, your boss may decide you're not worth keeping. (Officially, Google has a "if you don't show up for 3 days in a row without telling anyone you're considered to have voluntarily resigned". Unofficially this gets bent by high-performers all the time, but legally they can do it.) This is also why ambitious people at the satellite offices - NYC, Pittsburg, Seattle - move to Mountain View, because the high-priority projects require facetime and rarely go to remote employees. b.) Hopping on a plane to make a meeting gets old really quickly, and also pretty expensive if you aren't pre-IPO. I know people who would commute from LA -> MTV, Uganda -> MTV, Seattle -> MTV, or do frequent business trips from Zurich or Sydney -> MTV. They hated it. You think the commute on 101 sucks, try adding the TSA to it.
- Thorrez 7y ago
  Note that that comment is identical to a different one posted by that user: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23162716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23162716
JSavageOne 7y ago
Location should not affect salary since when it comes to remote work it is completely irrelevant.
- mulmen 7y ago
  Until you and a remote candidate in Idaho are equally qualified but the Idaho candidate is willing to take 2/3 of the pay and live like royalty.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    Should it be a race to the bottom? Also, I think it's pretty rare in tech to have multiple qualified candidates to choose from. Typically the candidates have multiple offers, not the other way around.
    - mulmen 7y ago
      Compensation is not based on the value provided to the company. Compensation is based on "market rate" as in, the lowest amount of money a candidate is willing to accept to do the job. The information asymmetry is such that candidates accept offers for far less than the company is willing to pay.
      - Pfhreak 7y ago
        That's not what market rate means. Market rate is a surveyed bell curve for the job across multiple companies.
        mulmen 6y ago
        Yes, the rate the market pays. That’s different than the value a candidate can bring to the company.
  - kyllo 7y ago
    This realistically isn't a major concern because the pool of qualified software engineers in a state like Idaho is far too small to make a noticeable dent in market salary levels.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
r00fus 7y ago
You and your employer need to know where you actually live to pay state and local income taxes. Falsifying this, to my knowledge, is not only a bad idea, but could easily be a termination-level offense and could be illegal.
SiVal 7y ago
If your employer thinks you're in California, they'll tell the California tax authorities that you are. CA will use that as evidence that you owe them a big chunk of your income. If you don't pay, you'll have to fight. To win, you'll probably have to prove that you misled your employer, which will probably result in your getting fired for it. If you lose, CA can force your employer to take the tax out of your salary, so you'll pay California anyway plus you'll probably have to pay the place you actually live if you've done anything to establish residence. Along the way, any number of other unpredictable problems can arise (bad credit rating, legal threats, ongoing disputes with entities that don't understand or care that you've surrendered, etc.) Good luck with all of that.
- taurath 7y ago
  I think it’s gonna get really weird. If a company pays the same in seattle as SF (or near), and A person lives in SF, I’d rather pay a friend in WA state a few hundred a month to “rent a room” than 10% of my income to California. That said there’s probably a bunch of laws around faking residency for tax purposes which id imagine has some hefty consequences.
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    Many faang companies pay the same 'higher' salaries at the same rates across seattle, sf, and nyc. The fangs used to do that when i worked there, but i wonder if they pay more in sf now? I'm sure some companies will want to pay you less if they can get away with it. But twitter will probably have to pay almost as much to keep their devs if they move. that's the key, keeping your workforce.
    - austinheap 7y ago
      Patently untrue -- there are fixed ratios for each band v city. With all due respect such a bold claim deserves a link.
      - NotSammyHagar 7y ago

by sizzle 7y ago

ElysianEagle 7y ago

I’m guessing you’re being downvoted by those who think your comment is encouraging unethical behavior. While I certainly don’t think it’s ethical to do so, I did wonder the same thing - would companies start putting measures in place to verify you’re working from the same general area as your initially provided address? Eg, sifting through VPN log files to geo locate IP addresses etc.

nostrademons 7y ago
They don't care as long as you show up to critical work meetings and are available when you need them for high-profile projects. I had a coworker (while at Google) who moved to Uganda without telling his manager, because he felt like it. His manager called a meeting for the next day, he hopped on a plane that night, showed up for the meeting, flew back to Uganda afterwards until he got bored there, and his manager was never the wiser, except for it being a great story for friends to tell. What's stopping people is largely that a.) if you aren't in the office, you miss out on critical opportunities, and if you aren't in the office too much, your boss may decide you're not worth keeping. (Officially, Google has a "if you don't show up for 3 days in a row without telling anyone you're considered to have voluntarily resigned". Unofficially this gets bent by high-performers all the time, but legally they can do it.) This is also why ambitious people at the satellite offices - NYC, Pittsburg, Seattle - move to Mountain View, because the high-priority projects require facetime and rarely go to remote employees. b.) Hopping on a plane to make a meeting gets old really quickly, and also pretty expensive if you aren't pre-IPO. I know people who would commute from LA -> MTV, Uganda -> MTV, Seattle -> MTV, or do frequent business trips from Zurich or Sydney -> MTV. They hated it. You think the commute on 101 sucks, try adding the TSA to it.
Thorrez 7y ago
Note that that comment is identical to a different one posted by that user: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23162716 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23162716

JSavageOne 7y ago

Location should not affect salary since when it comes to remote work it is completely irrelevant.

mulmen 7y ago
Until you and a remote candidate in Idaho are equally qualified but the Idaho candidate is willing to take 2/3 of the pay and live like royalty.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Should it be a race to the bottom? Also, I think it's pretty rare in tech to have multiple qualified candidates to choose from. Typically the candidates have multiple offers, not the other way around.
  - mulmen 7y ago
    Compensation is not based on the value provided to the company. Compensation is based on "market rate" as in, the lowest amount of money a candidate is willing to accept to do the job. The information asymmetry is such that candidates accept offers for far less than the company is willing to pay.
    - Pfhreak 7y ago
      That's not what market rate means. Market rate is a surveyed bell curve for the job across multiple companies.
      - mulmen 6y ago
        Yes, the rate the market pays. That’s different than the value a candidate can bring to the company.
- kyllo 7y ago
  This realistically isn't a major concern because the pool of qualified software engineers in a state like Idaho is far too small to make a noticeable dent in market salary levels.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

r00fus 7y ago

You and your employer need to know where you actually live to pay state and local income taxes. Falsifying this, to my knowledge, is not only a bad idea, but could easily be a termination-level offense and could be illegal.

SiVal 7y ago

If your employer thinks you're in California, they'll tell the California tax authorities that you are. CA will use that as evidence that you owe them a big chunk of your income. If you don't pay, you'll have to fight. To win, you'll probably have to prove that you misled your employer, which will probably result in your getting fired for it. If you lose, CA can force your employer to take the tax out of your salary, so you'll pay California anyway plus you'll probably have to pay the place you actually live if you've done anything to establish residence. Along the way, any number of other unpredictable problems can arise (bad credit rating, legal threats, ongoing disputes with entities that don't understand or care that you've surrendered, etc.) Good luck with all of that.

taurath 7y ago
I think it’s gonna get really weird. If a company pays the same in seattle as SF (or near), and A person lives in SF, I’d rather pay a friend in WA state a few hundred a month to “rent a room” than 10% of my income to California. That said there’s probably a bunch of laws around faking residency for tax purposes which id imagine has some hefty consequences.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  Many faang companies pay the same 'higher' salaries at the same rates across seattle, sf, and nyc. The fangs used to do that when i worked there, but i wonder if they pay more in sf now? I'm sure some companies will want to pay you less if they can get away with it. But twitter will probably have to pay almost as much to keep their devs if they move. that's the key, keeping your workforce.
  - austinheap 7y ago
    Patently untrue -- there are fixed ratios for each band v city. With all due respect such a bold claim deserves a link.
    - NotSammyHagar 7y ago