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Five surfers drown in the Netherlands, getting into 'avalanche-like' sea foam
- oh_sigh 7y agoMaybe a stupid question but why don't surfers carry a small emergency air supply on their body? Not anything big, I'm thinking just about the size of a soda can or something. SCUBA divers may carry "spare air", but I've never seen surfers do this.
- xkcd-sucks 7y agoMasses of water moving around are really powerful. They toss around and break human bodies. As a mediocre surfer, I imagine it would be quite difficult to deploy an emergency air system while being tossed around by a wave, and that a permanent breathing tube would need a pretty hefty retention system to keep it from getting knocked off or damaged.
- jms 7y agoSome big wave surfers do. Apparently it's pretty disconcerting, as you need to let go of the air you're holding before taking a big breath on the device, which may or may not work...
- s1artibartfast 7y ago99% of Scuba divers don't carry spare air. It is hard to imagine it being worth it for surfers.
- reason-mr 7y agoWhen you get really drilled by a large wave, you get ragdolled. Getting to an air supply could be hard.
- nodesocket 7y agoUnrelated, but I could have sworn foxnews.com domain was shadow banned on HN? Not trying to troll at all, just honestly thought so.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- symplee 7y agoNot sure if it's a matter of the overall submission count that's giving this impression, but in the last year, users submitted: 6,612 articles from nytimes.com [0] 91 articles from foxnews.com [1] [0] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=true&query=nytimes.com&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=tru... [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=false&query=foxnews.com&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=fal...
- Zenbit_UX 7y agoThe way it should be, only one of those is a news site and it's not the one with the word news in its name.
- FriendlyNormie 7y agoDie in a gruesome car accident.
- BenjiWiebe 7y agoI like to tell people they are mispronouncing Fox News..... "It's pronounced faux news."
- duncan_bayne 7y agoThe NY Times doesn't have a stellar track record either: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_controver... Although I would much rather them than Fox if forced to choose. (As it is, I follow neither).
- CapricornNoble 7y agoNYT produces plenty of "fake news" and biased hypocritical trash. All of the big media outlets are flaming dumpster fires, regardless of where they are on the political spectrum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzVzG_6jsZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzVzG_6jsZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v18b5ip95Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v18b5ip95Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZewXzRxRen0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZewXzRxRen0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxHG6yM5Fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxHG6yM5Fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIGH7J5CLtQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIGH7J5CLtQ There's been a few occasions where I've found an interesting article on Fox News and I won't share or link it here or on Reddit, because I know that the bias is so strong against Fox as an organization that few people would consume the content with an open mind. So I go and track down another outlet covering the same story and link that instead. I'm sure other members here do the same sort of self-censorship, essentially. That's part of why you'll see 6000 submissions from NYT and only 90 from Fox.
- themodelplumber 7y ago> two of the surfers were internationally trained lifeguards that had worked in Australia. Wow. That adds a bit of an extra dimension. What a sad event. > “They were busy training," he said Tuesday. "They then disappeared under the foam like it was some sort of avalanche.” .
- jeroenhd 7y agoI find the Fox article to be rather short, so have another link with links to more details and news if you're interested in what happened: https://nltimes.nl/2020/05/12/rescuers-find-fifth-dead-body-rough-seas-scheveningen-coast https://nltimes.nl/2020/05/12/rescuers-find-fifth-dead-body-...
- azepoi 7y agoMore coverage https://regio15.nl/nieuws/lijst-weergave/31-waterongevallen/31716-live-grote-inzet-hulpdiensten-bij-scheveningen https://regio15.nl/nieuws/lijst-weergave/31-waterongevallen/... https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/ungluecke/mindestens-fuenf-surfer-kommen-vor-hollaendischer-kueste-um-16765845.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/ungluecke/mindesten... https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0512/1137952-surfing-deaths-netherlands/ https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0512/1137952-surfing-deat... https://regio15.nl/nieuws/lijst-weergave/31-waterongevallen/31718-zoekactie-naar-vermiste-personen-bij-scheveningen https://regio15.nl/nieuws/lijst-weergave/31-waterongevallen/...
- pkaye 7y agoThe way this picture was shot (like tilt-shift) makes it look like a miniature scale model. https://twitter.com/regio15/status/1260070967822503936/photo/1 https://twitter.com/regio15/status/1260070967822503936/photo...
- ansgri 7y agoWhy do you think it’s TS and not just shallow DoF?
- stevespang 7y agoMan against Mother Nature - - - too often man looses. Surfers, especially in that geography wear wetsuits which give some buoyancy, but not like a life jacket does, and I don't know any surfers who wear life jackets. I was a WSI, a life guard trainer back in college, still swim 5,200 yds a week which really is nothing compared to swim team, and I scuba dive down to the bottoms of our nearby lakes to set submersible pumps for a living (diving 41 years), my dive gear has a BC vest that can act as a life jacket (if) it is not damaged and (if) my regulator is functioning and (if) I have still have air in my tank and (if) I have not blacked out by like a boat hitting me, too many ifs, but I absolutely will not venture out onto surface of bodies of water on watercraft without wearing a life jacket for a whole host of reasons (surfboards are some sort of watercraft). I assume they were more or less "drowned" in the foam, unable to breathe, suffocated. The most professional solution for fighting most fires is foam which puts out fires by sort of drowning them too.
- codezero 7y agoI’ve been in foam that was similar to this (at least by description) and no pfd will have buoyancy that will float you out of it. It’s also less turbulent than the water, so if it were swimmable they would have done it. I expect they were in the surface of the water and engulfed in foam too dense to swim up through and disorienting enough that they couldn’t just head for shore in.
- antoncohen 7y agoSurfers can't use traditional life jackets. Partly because of the bulkiness. But also because surfers typically need to be able to go under the water. The surface of the water when a wave breaks is very turbulent and powerful, and the white water is similar to the foam in this story -- too much air to float, too much water to breath. Surfers duck dive (or bail their boards) to get under the white water. The same is true in a big barrels. If a surfer knows they won't make it, they will pin drop and try to get as deep into the water as possible. If they fall and stay on the surface of the water in a big barrel they will probably be swept over the falls and be driven down with crazy force. The buoyancy of a traditional life jackets wouldn't be good for surfers. What big wave surfers use is inflatable vests with CO2 cartridges[1][2]. They pull a tab to inflate, and another one to deflate. They have multiple CO2 cartridges, sometimes surfers will have to inflate to get to the surface, take a breath, deflate and dive back under water for the next wave, then inflate again, until a jet ski can rescue them. But inflatable vests aren't a thing normal surfers need, they are only for big waves in deep water (Mavericks, Jaws, etc.). There are also impact vests and wetsuits[3][4] that provide a more passive form of flotation, enough to raise an unconscious surfer to the surface. These are used in big waves, including ones in shallow water (Teahupoo, Pipeline). [1] https://www.quiksilver.com/highline-pro-airlift-vest/ https://www.quiksilver.com/highline-pro-airlift-vest/ [2] https://www.patagonia.com/psi-vest-purchasing/ https://www.patagonia.com/psi-vest-purchasing/ [3] https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-yulex-impact-wetsuit-vest/88472.html https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-yulex-impact-wetsuit-... [4] https://buellsurf.com/collections/job-collection/products/rb1-2mm-l-s-float-springsuit-mens-job-camo https://buellsurf.com/collections/job-collection/products/rb...
- killjoywashere 7y agoThe problem with sea foam is that it's mostly air, so you sink in it. If they were experienced surfers in storm conditions, they were almost certainly on shortboards or mini-guns, which barely float them to begin with, by design. They would have leashes holding the board to their ankle, so they would have their flotation device but if the combination of board and body don't float, the leash won't help. I suspect some light seafoam got sucked under denser foam by currents and then, as it upwelled, basically opened a hole under them. I can't say I've experienced anything at the scale that would drown 5 men, but falling into upwelling foam is definitely a thing.
- learn_more 7y agoA few feet of foam atop the water is all it would take to smother you because you can't breathe it nor get above it.
- jms 7y agoLooks like they were super experienced body surfers wearing swim fins - the guys that would usually be doing the rescuing. It sounds like the bigger problem was that they got lost in the sea foam - couldn't see where they were going. You're absolutely right about the suffocation risk due to foam/bubbles though.
- londons_explore 7y agoTo me it's clear that natural conditions appeared safe for experts, but in fact were not. Since while surfing, communication and group behaviour are tricky, I'd say it's likely each of these people individually made their (incorrect) danger assessment. That effectively puts the fatality rate in these specific conditions at 5/7, or ~70%. So, to prevent this reoccurring, the specific conditions need to be identified, and other surfers need to be trained to avoid them. I'm thinking something like "Whenever waves are over 5 feet, there is an onshore wind, and a water sample maintains foam for more than 5 minutes, you are unlikely to survive" Sadly, I doubt very much this will happen.
- CogitoCogito 7y agoTo be fair, is this a big deal statistically? I have surfed for a very long time and I've never heard of this. Am I just ignorant and this is not uncommon (presumably in areas/conditions I don't surf in)? Or is this just some sort of freak occurrence? Unless this is much more common than I believe I think we really should just file this under "really bad luck" and move on and focus on the more statistically dangerous problems surfing. I mean I guess we can all think to ourselves "deep foam can be a dangerous", but I wonder if anyone given that message would ever end up saved by it given how unusual (my assumption) it is.
- reason-mr 7y agoI lived in Hawaii and surfed there for some time. I had a conversation with a well known shaper (surfboard maker) about this and some of the things which went on on the North Shore. He said : "In your 20's you try a bunch of stuff and you don't die. So you think you can get away with it. Most of the time, you don't die. Then as you get into your 40's the law of probabilities catches up with you and your either die or have a near-death experience, and then you back way-the-hell off". I.E. the probability of a serious problem is moderate to small, but you can have long runs of winning at dice. But eventually, unless you change, it will get you. Several famous people have gotten this message, including Jack Johnson (who was on the trajectory as a pro surfer before he became a musician - incident at pipe). Jamie O'Brian, etc.
- londons_explore 7y agoSea foam can be natural... But a lot of it has artificial origins from various pollutants. I really wouldn't be surprised if the extra foamyness leading to these deaths couldn't eventually be tracked back to some heavy nitrogen fertilizer applied to local fields a week ago, and a rainstorm...
- tinus_hn 7y agoDon’t worry, calls to forbid surfing have already been placed.
- IlyaMoroshkin 7y agoMore young healthy people in the Netherlands have died from Sea Foam than from COVID-19.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]