5 ms·

> I'm interested to know what the majority of the Windows machines are used for. I have IT experience in the "mom and pop" small-medium business world but am p

> I'm interested to know what the majority of the Windows machines are used for. I have IT experience in the "mom and pop" small-medium business world but am pretty Linux illiterate. I can buy a copy of Windows Server 2019, install the ActiveDirectory role, create a domain, and domain-join every computer that business has, and start doing all kinds of simple-but-effective policies like folder redirection+shadow copies, define password policies, start checking various compliance boxes, formalize a file share permission structure, enable Bitlocker, etc etc etc. Also, apps for nearly any business exist on Windows. Do Linux equivalents for any of this even exist? If they do, is there a large pool of competent admins you can hire for cheap in every non-megacity? The shift currently is from physical servers being owned by SMB to _the same architecture_ in the cloud. As the cloud admin market saturates, you'll see the % of Linux machines in the cloud drop and drop as SMB migrates their familiar setup to the commoditized cloud market. The bottom line is your average non-Silicon Valley user can't smoothly change between Outlook 2010 and Outlook 2013. If you think a switch to Linux is possible in any timeframe less than decades, you are out of touch with the common computer user and their business needs. EDIT: i use SMB as an abbreviation for small-medium business https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_and_medium-sized_enterprises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_and_medium-sized_enterpr...

chasil 6y ago
Most of what you are talking about was implemented in DCE, and there were ports to Linux but it never became popular. Microsoft certainly lifted a fair amount of this code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Computing_Environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Computing_Environm... Interestingly, SMB is about to switch to Google's QUIC UDP, which is a great improvement.
- contextfree 6y ago
  I think the GP meant SMB = "small and medium-sized business" rather than SMB = Server Message Block (the Windows file-sharing protocol)
  - kryogen1c 6y ago
    woops! i surely did, thanks! edited.
pnutjam 6y ago
The number of servers that are used for basic filesharing and Domain authentication are dwarfed by the number of servers used for applications and databases. Linux has can manage a Windows Domain, but it doesn't support all the GPO's etc... Windows can also manage linux authentication, but likewise is missing parts for advanced usage.
- kryogen1c 6y ago
  > The number of servers that are used for basic filesharing and Domain authentication are dwarfed by the number of servers used for applications and databases while this is probably true, it entirely misses the point. it's only true because a very, very small number of megacompanies consume huge amounts of servers; a more accurate number for this discussion would be server per company. Nearly every business larger than a few people has a need for a windows server (for basic filesharing and Domain authentication, not databases or custom apps) and a windows app for their business that can be filled nearly off-the-shelf. the cost-benefit of trying to start a linux setup is not even close to worth it.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Maybe not on Azure but on-prem?
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    Why is it surprising? SMEs tend to buy cheap laptops, that come with "free" Windows Home. (I don't that that version can even be added to a domain) Then they start expanding and just stick with "what works", until it doesn't. But I see this dropping drastically in the next decade, as PC replacements(read even cheaper Chromebooks and tablets) take more hold and web takes over even spreadsheets.
jedieaston 6y ago
Those workloads should be moved to Intune, it's a heck of a lot cheaper for SMBs ($20 for Windows+Office 365+Intune) and not hard to set up. You probably shouldn't be spinning up a new AD forest unless you have an app that needs it, cloud directories are pretty much fine.
- kryogen1c 6y ago
  ...what? isnt intune an MDM platform? regardless, there are some pretty sizable monthly costs when you already own the competing infrastructure - "$20 for Windows+Office 365+Intune" is not accurate. are you referring to azure AD? thats basically what i said originally - on-prem deployments are being replaced by cloud infrastructure. the point is that its a windows architecture, which is what the person i was replying to didnt understand/know.
  - jedieaston 6y ago
    Sorry, I meant $20 per user per month. But it should be cheaper when it comes to refresh time (for your on-prem AD), unless you have to pony up for Enterprise (for compliance and enhanced MFA, which is more like 40 dollars per month), or if you have software which relies on on-prem AD. And Intune manages Windows systems using a combination of MDM profiles and GPO (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/configuration/administrative-templates-windows https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/configuration/ad...).
    - kryogen1c 6y ago
      > Sorry, I meant $20 per user per month. But it should be cheaper I understood you: The cheapest Enterprise Mobility + Security license is ~$105 per year. A Windows user CAL is ~$10 per year. To be on-prem requires a physical server; if a $10k server lasts 6 years, thats ~$1700 a year to do more than AD but let's assume 100% of costs are for AD. Also, the Windows Server license (depending on purchase method) is ~$100 per year. Up until 18 users, the server investment is more expensive. [18 * 10] + 100 + 1700 = 1980 versus [18 * 105] = 1890. At everything above 19 users, EMS is more expensive, 1990 vs 1995. Note that this comparison is very slanted in favor of EMS licenses. A $10k server is more expensive than most small business have and 100% of the cost isn't actually for hosting AD (domain controllers are generally lightweight and non-resource intensive). In reality, it becomes cheaper at something closer to 8 users, which covers most small businesses that are more than just a personal laptop and a point-of-sale terminal/CC machine.

chasil 6y ago

Most of what you are talking about was implemented in DCE, and there were ports to Linux but it never became popular. Microsoft certainly lifted a fair amount of this code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Computing_Environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Computing_Environm... Interestingly, SMB is about to switch to Google's QUIC UDP, which is a great improvement.

contextfree 6y ago
I think the GP meant SMB = "small and medium-sized business" rather than SMB = Server Message Block (the Windows file-sharing protocol)
- kryogen1c 6y ago
  woops! i surely did, thanks! edited.

pnutjam 6y ago

The number of servers that are used for basic filesharing and Domain authentication are dwarfed by the number of servers used for applications and databases. Linux has can manage a Windows Domain, but it doesn't support all the GPO's etc... Windows can also manage linux authentication, but likewise is missing parts for advanced usage.

kryogen1c 6y ago
> The number of servers that are used for basic filesharing and Domain authentication are dwarfed by the number of servers used for applications and databases while this is probably true, it entirely misses the point. it's only true because a very, very small number of megacompanies consume huge amounts of servers; a more accurate number for this discussion would be server per company. Nearly every business larger than a few people has a need for a windows server (for basic filesharing and Domain authentication, not databases or custom apps) and a windows app for their business that can be filled nearly off-the-shelf. the cost-benefit of trying to start a linux setup is not even close to worth it.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Maybe not on Azure but on-prem?
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Why is it surprising? SMEs tend to buy cheap laptops, that come with "free" Windows Home. (I don't that that version can even be added to a domain) Then they start expanding and just stick with "what works", until it doesn't. But I see this dropping drastically in the next decade, as PC replacements(read even cheaper Chromebooks and tablets) take more hold and web takes over even spreadsheets.

jedieaston 6y ago

Those workloads should be moved to Intune, it's a heck of a lot cheaper for SMBs ($20 for Windows+Office 365+Intune) and not hard to set up. You probably shouldn't be spinning up a new AD forest unless you have an app that needs it, cloud directories are pretty much fine.

kryogen1c 6y ago
...what? isnt intune an MDM platform? regardless, there are some pretty sizable monthly costs when you already own the competing infrastructure - "$20 for Windows+Office 365+Intune" is not accurate. are you referring to azure AD? thats basically what i said originally - on-prem deployments are being replaced by cloud infrastructure. the point is that its a windows architecture, which is what the person i was replying to didnt understand/know.
- jedieaston 6y ago
  Sorry, I meant $20 per user per month. But it should be cheaper when it comes to refresh time (for your on-prem AD), unless you have to pony up for Enterprise (for compliance and enhanced MFA, which is more like 40 dollars per month), or if you have software which relies on on-prem AD. And Intune manages Windows systems using a combination of MDM profiles and GPO (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/configuration/administrative-templates-windows https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/configuration/ad...).
  - kryogen1c 6y ago
    > Sorry, I meant $20 per user per month. But it should be cheaper I understood you: The cheapest Enterprise Mobility + Security license is ~$105 per year. A Windows user CAL is ~$10 per year. To be on-prem requires a physical server; if a $10k server lasts 6 years, thats ~$1700 a year to do more than AD but let's assume 100% of costs are for AD. Also, the Windows Server license (depending on purchase method) is ~$100 per year. Up until 18 users, the server investment is more expensive. [18 * 10] + 100 + 1700 = 1980 versus [18 * 105] = 1890. At everything above 19 users, EMS is more expensive, 1990 vs 1995. Note that this comparison is very slanted in favor of EMS licenses. A $10k server is more expensive than most small business have and 100% of the cost isn't actually for hosting AD (domain controllers are generally lightweight and non-resource intensive). In reality, it becomes cheaper at something closer to 8 users, which covers most small businesses that are more than just a personal laptop and a point-of-sale terminal/CC machine.