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I wonder how long it will be before backblaze moves to SSDs. Obviously a lot more expensive right now, but with the lower power consumption/heat and ability to

I wonder how long it will be before backblaze moves to SSDs. Obviously a lot more expensive right now, but with the lower power consumption/heat and ability to cram way more in, might be sooner than we think?

andy4blaze 6y ago
Andy at Backblaze here. We use SSDs in our core servers and more recently in boot drives as they both need to speed. To store data in our case we don't need the speed so its not worth it yet. Given the amount of data growth, most predictions have HDDs still with about 50% of the storage market in 2025.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  Seems SSD has potential for higher density though, no? Though cross-over point is still some time away, a decade or so?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    In terms of volumetric density, flash is already much higher. A 4TB m.2 2280 SSD is ~70 times smaller than a 16TB 3.5" HDD.
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      Yes, I was imprecise, I meant at roughly the same cost. Just seems that the spinning rust guys have to jump through some pretty extreme hoops to get density up, while the flash guys "just" have to reduce cost, which gives them more angles of attack (ie either further density increase or process optimization).
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  As a thought experiment disregarding the cost: How much SSD based storage could you effectively pack in a single pod (including wiring/distribution/power/cooling etc.) today?
bufferoverflow 6y ago
When SSDs are comparable in price to HDDs. Which is... not soon.
- greggyb 6y ago
  It's more than just $/B of drives. It's $/B all-inclusive. Backblaze deploys their storage as storage pods (a server holding drives) in their vault architecture (many pods form a vault, with data sharded across pods in a vault).[0] So you would want to look at $/B of a vault. A vault includes the rest of the server hardware. The cost of the vault includes not just the server hardware, but also floor space in a data center and electricity to run the hardware. Flash storage is denser than HDDs and more power efficient, so you should expect a monetary breakeven at some point before SSDs are priced at similar $/B as HDDs. [0] https://www.backblaze.com/blog/vault-cloud-storage-architecture/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/vault-cloud-storage-architect...
  - bigiain 6y ago
    Also, I wonder about availability of off the shelf hardware for non HD alternatives? It's reasonably well understood how to plug 45 harddrives into a server, I wonder if you can buy hardware to drive 45m.2 2280 SSDs into one server/motherboard as easily?
    - greggyb 6y ago
      You could probably see benefits with 2.5" drives, just due to the form factor and lower power draw compared to 3.5" HDDs. If you wanted to put in a bit more work, you could shuck the 2.5" enclosures, as the PCB space of an SSD is usually significantly smaller than the volume of the enclosure.

andy4blaze 6y ago

Andy at Backblaze here. We use SSDs in our core servers and more recently in boot drives as they both need to speed. To store data in our case we don't need the speed so its not worth it yet. Given the amount of data growth, most predictions have HDDs still with about 50% of the storage market in 2025.

magicalhippo 6y ago
Seems SSD has potential for higher density though, no? Though cross-over point is still some time away, a decade or so?
- jeffbee 6y ago
  In terms of volumetric density, flash is already much higher. A 4TB m.2 2280 SSD is ~70 times smaller than a 16TB 3.5" HDD.
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    Yes, I was imprecise, I meant at roughly the same cost. Just seems that the spinning rust guys have to jump through some pretty extreme hoops to get density up, while the flash guys "just" have to reduce cost, which gives them more angles of attack (ie either further density increase or process optimization).
PeterStuer 6y ago
As a thought experiment disregarding the cost: How much SSD based storage could you effectively pack in a single pod (including wiring/distribution/power/cooling etc.) today?

bufferoverflow 6y ago

When SSDs are comparable in price to HDDs. Which is... not soon.

greggyb 6y ago
It's more than just $/B of drives. It's $/B all-inclusive. Backblaze deploys their storage as storage pods (a server holding drives) in their vault architecture (many pods form a vault, with data sharded across pods in a vault).[0] So you would want to look at $/B of a vault. A vault includes the rest of the server hardware. The cost of the vault includes not just the server hardware, but also floor space in a data center and electricity to run the hardware. Flash storage is denser than HDDs and more power efficient, so you should expect a monetary breakeven at some point before SSDs are priced at similar $/B as HDDs. [0] https://www.backblaze.com/blog/vault-cloud-storage-architecture/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/vault-cloud-storage-architect...
- bigiain 6y ago
  Also, I wonder about availability of off the shelf hardware for non HD alternatives? It's reasonably well understood how to plug 45 harddrives into a server, I wonder if you can buy hardware to drive 45m.2 2280 SSDs into one server/motherboard as easily?
  - greggyb 6y ago
    You could probably see benefits with 2.5" drives, just due to the form factor and lower power draw compared to 3.5" HDDs. If you wanted to put in a bit more work, you could shuck the 2.5" enclosures, as the PCB space of an SSD is usually significantly smaller than the volume of the enclosure.