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No one is advocating the right to break into homes to make others sick. Anyone who wants to stay home alone, absolutely should. I am advocating freedom of mov

No one is advocating the right to break into homes to make others sick. Anyone who wants to stay home alone, absolutely should. I am advocating freedom of movement and freedom of association. Quarantine is for the sick, not the healthy. I'm equating lockdowns with tyranny, yes. Shutting down the global economy has resulted in hundreds of millions of people experiencing food insecurity. It will result in an enormous cost in terms of deaths, morbidity, and impaired mental well-being, for people in the UK and around the world.

jhayward 6y ago
> Quarantine is for the sick, not the healthy No, quarantine is literally for the “potentially exposed”, not the known sick. Once a person is sick, they are then isolated, not quarantined.
- balnaphone 6y ago
  The majority of people in the UK have not been exposed, even potentially. Therefore, this is not a traditional quarantine, by the standard definition. Prior to the lockdown, quarantine was already in effect for foreign travellers and so on. This is a novel policy. Some definitions below. ==== From the Cambridge English Dictionary: lockdown noun [ C or U ] mainly US UK /ˈlɒk.daʊn/ US /ˈlɑːk.daʊn/ a situation in which people are not allowed to enter or leave a building or area freely because of an emergency. From the Oxford dictionary: quarantine noun /ˈkwɔrənˌtin/ , /ˈkwɑrənˌtin/ [uncountable] a period of time when an animal or a person that has or may have a disease is kept away from others in order to prevent the disease from spreading From the American CDC: "Isolation" separates sick people with a contagious disease from people who are not sick. "Quarantine" separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
Your freedoms are not unlimited. Just as you have no right to unlimited freedom of speech by shouting fire in a crowded theater, you have no right to unlimited freedom of association by visiting your grandma in a nursing home during a pandemic and killing scores of people. >Shutting down the global economy This implies that the global economy would not have taken a hit had we not enforced more stringent quarantine policies. Do you really think that people were going to be flying, eating out at restaurants, or going to their local movie theater or mall while their local community is dropping like flies around them? >hundreds of millions of people experiencing food insecurity Citation needed. And, by the way, this is not an argument against quarantine policies, this is an argument for better social services from the government. >It will result in an enormous cost in terms of deaths, morbidity, and impaired mental well-being, for people in the UK and around the world. Citation needed. Are you going to just continue to throw around unsubstantiated claims?
- balnaphone 6y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/emanuelabarbiroglio/2020/04/23/covid-19-is-expected-to-be-a-key-driver-of-acute-food-insecurity/#3475b44178ef https://www.forbes.com/sites/emanuelabarbiroglio/2020/04/23/... > COVID-19 will double the number of people suffering from a food crisis, pushing it to 265 million, estimates the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP). You can read the report to see the effects of policy versus the effects of the burden of disease. I don't need to cite anything regarding the other claims. The people who have assaulted human dignity by putting half of humanity under house arrest are the ones who need to prove that this draconian intervention will result in a net benefit, vis a vis the concerns I've pointed out. Cite your sources that it will -- I'm sure to hear crickets chirping on that one.
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    Note how your quote says "COVID-19 will double", not "Draconian lockdowns will double"? There would be a food crisis, with or without lockdown policies in place. You are conflating the consequences of the pandemic to the consequences of policies in response to the pandemic. It's a simple mistake, yet you continue to make it throughout this thread.
    - balnaphone 6y ago
      Perhaps you should read the report before opining on it, as I mentioned when I posted the link.
      - cycrutchfield 6y ago
        I did.
        balnaphone 6y ago
        Are you sure? The HRW report that the UN report references is quite clear. I don't have time to track down all the recent news, but the keywords "food insecurity lockdown" put into Dogpile, Bing, or Yippy should help you get started on the relevant popular literature. ==== Coronavirus: Food insecurity fallout from Nigeria's lockdownwww.theafricareport.com › coronavirus-food-insecurity... By Oluwatosin Adeshokan, in Ogun. Posted on Monday, 11 May 2020 17:47. Virus Outbreak Nigeria Food In this photo taken on Friday, April 17, 2020, people ... 'Instead of Coronavirus, the Hunger Will Kill Us.' A Global Foodwww.nytimes.com › 2020/04/22 › world › africa › coron... Apr 22, 2020 - It could double the number of people facing acute hunger to 265 million by ... Coronavirus lockdowns have caused many more to go hungry. ... safety net face a future where hunger is a more immediate threat than the virus. Millions in Lebanon risk food insecurity over virus lockdown ...www.france24.com › Return to homepage › Live news Apr 8, 2020 - "The lockdown... has compounded the poverty and economic hardship rampant in Lebanon before the virus arrived," said HRW senior ... Coronavirus Lockdowns Are Choking Africa's Food Supply ...time.com › World › COVID-19 Apr 15, 2020 - Lockdowns have blocked farmers from getting food to markets and ... Bank said the virus could create “a severe food security crisis in Africa.”. Coronavirus crisis could double number of people suffering ...www.theguardian.com › world › apr › global-hunger-c... Apr 21, 2020 - Lockdowns and global economic recession have already decimated their nest eggs. ... Global hunger could become the next big impact of the pandemic, ... save people stricken by the virus only for them to fall prey to hunger. Severe hunger threatens Africa during COVID-19 lockdowns ...www.dw.com › severe-hunger-threatens-africa-during-... Apr 22, 2020 - The government imposed a nighttime curfew and shut businesses down in early March to slow the spread of the virus. To help with food ... Coronavirus: Your one-stop blog for food industry updateswww.foodnavigator.com › Article › 2020/03/23 › Coro... 2 hours ago - Coronavirus: Betting on aeroponics to increase food security ... the UK's national lockdown, according to a John Lewis and Waitrose Report. ... hands, take supplements: Researchers urge leaders to extend virus advice . Coronavirus: Fighting food poverty in a lockdown - BBC Newswww.bbc.com › uk-england-manchester-52228080 Apr 13, 2020 - Coronavirus: Fighting food poverty in a lockdown ... Volunteers at FareShare risk their health to help feed those in need during the virus crisis.

jhayward 6y ago

> Quarantine is for the sick, not the healthy No, quarantine is literally for the “potentially exposed”, not the known sick. Once a person is sick, they are then isolated, not quarantined.

balnaphone 6y ago
The majority of people in the UK have not been exposed, even potentially. Therefore, this is not a traditional quarantine, by the standard definition. Prior to the lockdown, quarantine was already in effect for foreign travellers and so on. This is a novel policy. Some definitions below. ==== From the Cambridge English Dictionary: lockdown noun [ C or U ] mainly US UK /ˈlɒk.daʊn/ US /ˈlɑːk.daʊn/ a situation in which people are not allowed to enter or leave a building or area freely because of an emergency. From the Oxford dictionary: quarantine noun /ˈkwɔrənˌtin/ , /ˈkwɑrənˌtin/ [uncountable] a period of time when an animal or a person that has or may have a disease is kept away from others in order to prevent the disease from spreading From the American CDC: "Isolation" separates sick people with a contagious disease from people who are not sick. "Quarantine" separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.

cycrutchfield 6y ago

Your freedoms are not unlimited. Just as you have no right to unlimited freedom of speech by shouting fire in a crowded theater, you have no right to unlimited freedom of association by visiting your grandma in a nursing home during a pandemic and killing scores of people. >Shutting down the global economy This implies that the global economy would not have taken a hit had we not enforced more stringent quarantine policies. Do you really think that people were going to be flying, eating out at restaurants, or going to their local movie theater or mall while their local community is dropping like flies around them? >hundreds of millions of people experiencing food insecurity Citation needed. And, by the way, this is not an argument against quarantine policies, this is an argument for better social services from the government. >It will result in an enormous cost in terms of deaths, morbidity, and impaired mental well-being, for people in the UK and around the world. Citation needed. Are you going to just continue to throw around unsubstantiated claims?

balnaphone 6y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emanuelabarbiroglio/2020/04/23/covid-19-is-expected-to-be-a-key-driver-of-acute-food-insecurity/#3475b44178ef https://www.forbes.com/sites/emanuelabarbiroglio/2020/04/23/... > COVID-19 will double the number of people suffering from a food crisis, pushing it to 265 million, estimates the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP). You can read the report to see the effects of policy versus the effects of the burden of disease. I don't need to cite anything regarding the other claims. The people who have assaulted human dignity by putting half of humanity under house arrest are the ones who need to prove that this draconian intervention will result in a net benefit, vis a vis the concerns I've pointed out. Cite your sources that it will -- I'm sure to hear crickets chirping on that one.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  Note how your quote says "COVID-19 will double", not "Draconian lockdowns will double"? There would be a food crisis, with or without lockdown policies in place. You are conflating the consequences of the pandemic to the consequences of policies in response to the pandemic. It's a simple mistake, yet you continue to make it throughout this thread.
  - balnaphone 6y ago
    Perhaps you should read the report before opining on it, as I mentioned when I posted the link.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      I did.
      - balnaphone 6y ago
        Are you sure? The HRW report that the UN report references is quite clear. I don't have time to track down all the recent news, but the keywords "food insecurity lockdown" put into Dogpile, Bing, or Yippy should help you get started on the relevant popular literature. ==== Coronavirus: Food insecurity fallout from Nigeria's lockdownwww.theafricareport.com › coronavirus-food-insecurity... By Oluwatosin Adeshokan, in Ogun. Posted on Monday, 11 May 2020 17:47. Virus Outbreak Nigeria Food In this photo taken on Friday, April 17, 2020, people ... 'Instead of Coronavirus, the Hunger Will Kill Us.' A Global Foodwww.nytimes.com › 2020/04/22 › world › africa › coron... Apr 22, 2020 - It could double the number of people facing acute hunger to 265 million by ... Coronavirus lockdowns have caused many more to go hungry. ... safety net face a future where hunger is a more immediate threat than the virus. Millions in Lebanon risk food insecurity over virus lockdown ...www.france24.com › Return to homepage › Live news Apr 8, 2020 - "The lockdown... has compounded the poverty and economic hardship rampant in Lebanon before the virus arrived," said HRW senior ... Coronavirus Lockdowns Are Choking Africa's Food Supply ...time.com › World › COVID-19 Apr 15, 2020 - Lockdowns have blocked farmers from getting food to markets and ... Bank said the virus could create “a severe food security crisis in Africa.”. Coronavirus crisis could double number of people suffering ...www.theguardian.com › world › apr › global-hunger-c... Apr 21, 2020 - Lockdowns and global economic recession have already decimated their nest eggs. ... Global hunger could become the next big impact of the pandemic, ... save people stricken by the virus only for them to fall prey to hunger. Severe hunger threatens Africa during COVID-19 lockdowns ...www.dw.com › severe-hunger-threatens-africa-during-... Apr 22, 2020 - The government imposed a nighttime curfew and shut businesses down in early March to slow the spread of the virus. To help with food ... Coronavirus: Your one-stop blog for food industry updateswww.foodnavigator.com › Article › 2020/03/23 › Coro... 2 hours ago - Coronavirus: Betting on aeroponics to increase food security ... the UK's national lockdown, according to a John Lewis and Waitrose Report. ... hands, take supplements: Researchers urge leaders to extend virus advice . Coronavirus: Fighting food poverty in a lockdown - BBC Newswww.bbc.com › uk-england-manchester-52228080 Apr 13, 2020 - Coronavirus: Fighting food poverty in a lockdown ... Volunteers at FareShare risk their health to help feed those in need during the virus crisis.