4 ms·

Tough (sincerely), and congrats on finding a gig that rewards you daily with passion and enthusiasm. But at the same time, I have little sympathy for people wh

by dfee 6y ago

Tough (sincerely), and congrats on finding a gig that rewards you daily with passion and enthusiasm. But at the same time, I have little sympathy for people who hate Apple for a move like this - regardless of the optics and whether it was intentional. No one has to use a Mac, but frankly, there’s a reason why the creative crowd does. And, it’s beyond just brand image. They have a clear and complete vision for their software (which yes, breaks at the edges), but overall provides the best foundation for the markets they cater to. Apple doesn’t want to be hamstrung by people running Windows on shoddy devices for premium software and thus exited that market. They also don’t want to make software for shoddy Android devices, so are conservative where they do. It’s not an attack on users, but a refocus on the golden path.

saagarjha 6y ago
Apple buying a company and axing their products for other platforms is all too common and has nothing to do with "people running Windows on shoddy devices". They kill all the projects for other platforms, strengthen theirs, and hurt users in the process. It's that simple.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  More recently, Dark Sky is in the process of being killed for Android
- dfee 6y ago
  > has nothing to do with "people running Windows on shoddy devices". You don't really believe that. This is specifically the reason Microsoft introduce their flagship device: the Surface Pro... and Google introduce theirs: the Pixel. These companies don't suck, but their licensing model causes frustrations for even them!
- ElFitz 6y ago
  It's more like... why would they support other platforms? They're moving to services now, but they've always mostly been a hardware shop. The software was "just" a "feature".
djaychela 6y ago
I'd disagree with "the creative crowd does" - I've been doing this self-employed for just over 20 years, and I'd say the split is probably 75/25, Windows / Mac. It used to be WAY more - like 90/10 in the favour of macs, but Windows has got a LOT better - back in the day I used to have to spend the best part of a day setting a new machine up, tweaking Windows settings, etc., to get anything like a reliable setup. Now I can just install Windows 10, do a batch of settings with one app, and you're away. I know that hardware has advanced and that's a part of it, but since Windows 7, the OS is mostly out of the way, and I know plenty of people who are creating music on Windows day in day out, without any reliability issues, and they're spending the money they save on hardware (i.e. not buying a mac) on soundware that makes them sound great. I use both - Windows DAW is my studio machine (I have a slave which runs more plugins using Vienna), and a 2015 MBP as mobile and for creating videos/images for books as everything looks better. But I'm in the minority in being cross-platform, which is odd to me.
whatok 6y ago
Apple does not have a clear and complete vision for their software. They consistently break things with OS and hardware updates. Many of the developers for audio applications are extremely small teams and cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice that they're once again breaking shit. There is no "golden path" for pro audio on a Mac and that's evident in their desktop offerings over the past decade.
- renaudg 6y ago
  > cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice Which audio software developers are you talking about ? The ones that are given a chance in June each year to preview the latest OS like all other devs, but decide to turn a blind eye while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer ? And then, when asked in September if they're gonna be ready on day 1, reply "you know, there's not even a release date for this new OS thing yet". And then, when the new OS drops in October like clockwork, e-mail their entire user base with "OMG DON'T UPGRADE ! THEY DROPPED THIS BOMB ON US, WOW, TOTALLY UNEXPECTED, HONESTLY ! We'll check this out and let you know maybe, in the meantime DON'T UPGRADE !! APPLE BROKE STUFF AGAIN, DAMN APPLE!". And then, in December or January if you're lucky (or never), finally release a compatible version. Rinse & repeat for year n+1. Or, maybe you're talking about those audio software developers that were given "only" 2 years notice that, ELEVEN years after macOS 10.6 introduced 64-bit support, it was finally becoming mandatory in Catalina. But they still decided to wait until it was released to believe it, like rabbits in headlights. Tough... Seriously, audio software developers are the worst. They only get away with this behavior each year because musicians are some the most conservative and risk-averse userbase you can have. If you go to forums like Gearslutz.com, you'll find people asking you in 2020 if it's now safe to upgrade to macOS Sierra, or how to downgrade a brand new MBP to 10.13 because they don't "trust" the new stuff. It's utterly depressing.
  - richrichardsson 6y ago
    > extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple's bullshit (which really only started around 10.13 onwards), and I see more and more non-Logic users willing to make the switch to Windows.
HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
>Apple doesn’t want to be hamstrung by people running Windows on shoddy devices for premium software and thus exited that market. Yea that's really not true at all especially when you can set whatever system requirements you want. There's nothing spectacular about apple software. It's not any better or worse than windows or android software that has has the same level of investment. Apple is doing strategic moves to create temporary one-way streets from other platforms to their own and then shut those down before others manage to take advantage. They did that with itunes in the past and they do that periodically with cheaper iphones now. The same thing happens with software. Shut down the alternative platoforms so you either switch software or you switch platoforms. There's nothing magical about Apple. Stop trying to justify their decisions, they are not made with your best interests in mind.

by dfee 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago

Apple buying a company and axing their products for other platforms is all too common and has nothing to do with "people running Windows on shoddy devices". They kill all the projects for other platforms, strengthen theirs, and hurt users in the process. It's that simple.

wlesieutre 6y ago
More recently, Dark Sky is in the process of being killed for Android
dfee 6y ago
> has nothing to do with "people running Windows on shoddy devices". You don't really believe that. This is specifically the reason Microsoft introduce their flagship device: the Surface Pro... and Google introduce theirs: the Pixel. These companies don't suck, but their licensing model causes frustrations for even them!
ElFitz 6y ago
It's more like... why would they support other platforms? They're moving to services now, but they've always mostly been a hardware shop. The software was "just" a "feature".

djaychela 6y ago

I'd disagree with "the creative crowd does" - I've been doing this self-employed for just over 20 years, and I'd say the split is probably 75/25, Windows / Mac. It used to be WAY more - like 90/10 in the favour of macs, but Windows has got a LOT better - back in the day I used to have to spend the best part of a day setting a new machine up, tweaking Windows settings, etc., to get anything like a reliable setup. Now I can just install Windows 10, do a batch of settings with one app, and you're away. I know that hardware has advanced and that's a part of it, but since Windows 7, the OS is mostly out of the way, and I know plenty of people who are creating music on Windows day in day out, without any reliability issues, and they're spending the money they save on hardware (i.e. not buying a mac) on soundware that makes them sound great. I use both - Windows DAW is my studio machine (I have a slave which runs more plugins using Vienna), and a 2015 MBP as mobile and for creating videos/images for books as everything looks better. But I'm in the minority in being cross-platform, which is odd to me.

whatok 6y ago

Apple does not have a clear and complete vision for their software. They consistently break things with OS and hardware updates. Many of the developers for audio applications are extremely small teams and cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice that they're once again breaking shit. There is no "golden path" for pro audio on a Mac and that's evident in their desktop offerings over the past decade.

renaudg 6y ago
> cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice Which audio software developers are you talking about ? The ones that are given a chance in June each year to preview the latest OS like all other devs, but decide to turn a blind eye while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer ? And then, when asked in September if they're gonna be ready on day 1, reply "you know, there's not even a release date for this new OS thing yet". And then, when the new OS drops in October like clockwork, e-mail their entire user base with "OMG DON'T UPGRADE ! THEY DROPPED THIS BOMB ON US, WOW, TOTALLY UNEXPECTED, HONESTLY ! We'll check this out and let you know maybe, in the meantime DON'T UPGRADE !! APPLE BROKE STUFF AGAIN, DAMN APPLE!". And then, in December or January if you're lucky (or never), finally release a compatible version. Rinse & repeat for year n+1. Or, maybe you're talking about those audio software developers that were given "only" 2 years notice that, ELEVEN years after macOS 10.6 introduced 64-bit support, it was finally becoming mandatory in Catalina. But they still decided to wait until it was released to believe it, like rabbits in headlights. Tough... Seriously, audio software developers are the worst. They only get away with this behavior each year because musicians are some the most conservative and risk-averse userbase you can have. If you go to forums like Gearslutz.com, you'll find people asking you in 2020 if it's now safe to upgrade to macOS Sierra, or how to downgrade a brand new MBP to 10.13 because they don't "trust" the new stuff. It's utterly depressing.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  > extremely small teams Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe? Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line. Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple's bullshit (which really only started around 10.13 onwards), and I see more and more non-Logic users willing to make the switch to Windows.

HeadsUpHigh 6y ago

>Apple doesn’t want to be hamstrung by people running Windows on shoddy devices for premium software and thus exited that market. Yea that's really not true at all especially when you can set whatever system requirements you want. There's nothing spectacular about apple software. It's not any better or worse than windows or android software that has has the same level of investment. Apple is doing strategic moves to create temporary one-way streets from other platforms to their own and then shut those down before others manage to take advantage. They did that with itunes in the past and they do that periodically with cheaper iphones now. The same thing happens with software. Shut down the alternative platoforms so you either switch software or you switch platoforms. There's nothing magical about Apple. Stop trying to justify their decisions, they are not made with your best interests in mind.