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This is a well written article. For decades, the Indian society has tried to use engineering (along with law, medicine and IAS) as a template to success. Given

by inapis 6y ago

This is a well written article. For decades, the Indian society has tried to use engineering (along with law, medicine and IAS) as a template to success. Given the population numbers, it was bound to break sooner or later. As an Indian CompSci graduate, I am excited for this bust to happen as soon as possible. Most people I know did not like studying computer science, are absolutely unhappy with their worklife and want to get out of it as fast as possible. Out of the 700+ in my graduating class of Computer Science, less than 70-80 are still associated with computers in some for or manner. Most fucked off to other fields, predominantly MBA. I hear similar stories from other Tier 2/3 institutions. I can't wait for Indians to realize just how much easier it is to get employed today if you are willing to let go of the traditional path. Internet has unlocked so much opportunity and after 2016, pretty much all barriers to internet access have been lowered as much as possible. All you need is a computing device like a phone or laptop to get started. Doesn't work for the extremely poor still, but the opportunity for mass swathes of people have been widened much more than before.

AQuantized 6y ago
What sort of opportunities are available for someone with little experience/qualifications in a poorer country?
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  In East Asian economies, the workforce transitioned from farming to labor-intensive manufacturing before moving onto high-tech services. India, in contrast, had a booming tech consultancy sector before they had a strong manufacturing sector. A poor farmer in China, and Japan/Korea in the decades prior, could move to a city and make a better income on an assembly line despite not having any formal education. A poor farmer in India needs to jump up to a service job which needs a lot more training and preferably a diploma to prove it. So even if your local college is a shit diploma mill, you'll still send your kids to it because there's no other choice for upwards mobility. There's no factory job where your children can get hired at and save up so the next generation can go to a college with legitimate training.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Which is good overall because automation is making those manufacturing jobs worth less and less. Companies are starting to leave China for low wage countries already. Right now service jobs designing the automation is where the real money is and India is well positioned to take it. Note there are no easy roads to success in general. Being born to the right family helps (a lot) , but you can sti mess up.
    - magicsmoke 6y ago
      Apparently not based on the premise of the article discussing the poor quality of service workers coming through India's education system. My hypothesis would be that the poor quality in education comes from trying to funnel as many people as possible into highly-skilled service jobs because there's no middle rung for them to take a rest at. Rushing things without a solid foundation always ends up being self-defeating and slower in the long run. In addition, automating a factory process is more effective if the designers live in a society with plenty of manufacturing experience. Avoids problems like egghead designers creating the latest automated process that turns out to be a nightmare for maintenance when actually used in a high-volume manufacturing line. I'd be willing to bet big chunk of the companies in the future automated factory revolution would be Chinese companies leveraging their manufacturing experience. Once again, skipping steps = problems down the line.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        The article is just a repeat of similar ones I see in the US pushing some agenda. I take it with a grain of salt.
- inapis 6y ago
  Plenty if you are willing to learn. People are creating exceptional stuff on the internet. From blogs, youtube, instagram to SaaS and apps, the content to learn all of this is available easily. It does not work for literally everyone from the country but the people I'm talking about can definitely travel on this path.
eklavya 6y ago
> Out of the 700+ in my graduating class of Computer Science, less than 70-80 are still associated with computers in some for or manner. I can back that up with my anecdotal stat as well, that number is rather generous, not even 70-80 would be doing it still. There were some which hated it and it showed. They were pressured into it and they were just struggling all around to develop any interest at all in the field. > I can't wait for Indians to realize just how much easier it is to get employed today if you are willing to let go of the traditional path. I am skeptical about this. Unless you can actively demonstrate competence (select few) you are not going to be favoured against someone with real degrees in the pile of resumes.
- inapis 6y ago
  > I am skeptical about this. Unless you can actively demonstrate competence (select few) you are not going to be favoured against someone with real degrees in the pile of resumes. That's why I said, if you are willing to let go of the traditional path. If you have to compete against a pile of resume, you are near or on the traditional path. Employment doesn't necessarily mean you have to be working for a company.
  - kharak 6y ago
    Could you give an example? Clearly, there are new paths. Streamer, Podcaster and so one. But nothing that couldn't employ masses.
throwawayengda 6y ago
> Out of the 700+ in my graduating class of Computer Science, less than 70-80 are still associated with computers in some for or manner '700+ graduating class' sounds more like a fraudulent diploma mill than a Tier 2/3 college. Actual Computer Science and Computer Engineering grads from Indian Tier 1/2/3 colleges have no problem finding jobs.
- inapis 6y ago
  Nope. Legit college whose students went onto excellent post graduate programs in US and Europe. 700 in a graduating class is chump change in India. Plenty of colleges whose annual batches are that size. I never said they had trouble finding jobs. You jumped the gun. I said they were not happy with choosing computer science as a career.
- dmode 6y ago
  Why is 700+ fraudulent ? HBS for example, has >1000 students in their graduating class
- httpz 6y ago
  Berkeley is graduating 900+ undergrads every year in EECS/CS. https://eecs.berkeley.edu/about/by-the-numbers https://eecs.berkeley.edu/about/by-the-numbers
matheusmoreira 6y ago
> For decades, the Indian society has tried to use engineering (along with law, medicine and IAS) as a template to success. Isn't this the case everywhere? Even in developed countries education has become the default path to a successful life. Medicine and law are extremely competitive fields because they have a reputation for guaranteed success. There aren't many opportunities available for people without qualifications.

by inapis 6y ago

AQuantized 6y ago

What sort of opportunities are available for someone with little experience/qualifications in a poorer country?

magicsmoke 6y ago
In East Asian economies, the workforce transitioned from farming to labor-intensive manufacturing before moving onto high-tech services. India, in contrast, had a booming tech consultancy sector before they had a strong manufacturing sector. A poor farmer in China, and Japan/Korea in the decades prior, could move to a city and make a better income on an assembly line despite not having any formal education. A poor farmer in India needs to jump up to a service job which needs a lot more training and preferably a diploma to prove it. So even if your local college is a shit diploma mill, you'll still send your kids to it because there's no other choice for upwards mobility. There's no factory job where your children can get hired at and save up so the next generation can go to a college with legitimate training.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Which is good overall because automation is making those manufacturing jobs worth less and less. Companies are starting to leave China for low wage countries already. Right now service jobs designing the automation is where the real money is and India is well positioned to take it. Note there are no easy roads to success in general. Being born to the right family helps (a lot) , but you can sti mess up.
  - magicsmoke 6y ago
    Apparently not based on the premise of the article discussing the poor quality of service workers coming through India's education system. My hypothesis would be that the poor quality in education comes from trying to funnel as many people as possible into highly-skilled service jobs because there's no middle rung for them to take a rest at. Rushing things without a solid foundation always ends up being self-defeating and slower in the long run. In addition, automating a factory process is more effective if the designers live in a society with plenty of manufacturing experience. Avoids problems like egghead designers creating the latest automated process that turns out to be a nightmare for maintenance when actually used in a high-volume manufacturing line. I'd be willing to bet big chunk of the companies in the future automated factory revolution would be Chinese companies leveraging their manufacturing experience. Once again, skipping steps = problems down the line.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      The article is just a repeat of similar ones I see in the US pushing some agenda. I take it with a grain of salt.
inapis 6y ago
Plenty if you are willing to learn. People are creating exceptional stuff on the internet. From blogs, youtube, instagram to SaaS and apps, the content to learn all of this is available easily. It does not work for literally everyone from the country but the people I'm talking about can definitely travel on this path.

eklavya 6y ago

> Out of the 700+ in my graduating class of Computer Science, less than 70-80 are still associated with computers in some for or manner. I can back that up with my anecdotal stat as well, that number is rather generous, not even 70-80 would be doing it still. There were some which hated it and it showed. They were pressured into it and they were just struggling all around to develop any interest at all in the field. > I can't wait for Indians to realize just how much easier it is to get employed today if you are willing to let go of the traditional path. I am skeptical about this. Unless you can actively demonstrate competence (select few) you are not going to be favoured against someone with real degrees in the pile of resumes.

inapis 6y ago
> I am skeptical about this. Unless you can actively demonstrate competence (select few) you are not going to be favoured against someone with real degrees in the pile of resumes. That's why I said, if you are willing to let go of the traditional path. If you have to compete against a pile of resume, you are near or on the traditional path. Employment doesn't necessarily mean you have to be working for a company.
- kharak 6y ago
  Could you give an example? Clearly, there are new paths. Streamer, Podcaster and so one. But nothing that couldn't employ masses.

throwawayengda 6y ago

> Out of the 700+ in my graduating class of Computer Science, less than 70-80 are still associated with computers in some for or manner '700+ graduating class' sounds more like a fraudulent diploma mill than a Tier 2/3 college. Actual Computer Science and Computer Engineering grads from Indian Tier 1/2/3 colleges have no problem finding jobs.

inapis 6y ago
Nope. Legit college whose students went onto excellent post graduate programs in US and Europe. 700 in a graduating class is chump change in India. Plenty of colleges whose annual batches are that size. I never said they had trouble finding jobs. You jumped the gun. I said they were not happy with choosing computer science as a career.
dmode 6y ago
Why is 700+ fraudulent ? HBS for example, has >1000 students in their graduating class
httpz 6y ago
Berkeley is graduating 900+ undergrads every year in EECS/CS. https://eecs.berkeley.edu/about/by-the-numbers https://eecs.berkeley.edu/about/by-the-numbers

matheusmoreira 6y ago

> For decades, the Indian society has tried to use engineering (along with law, medicine and IAS) as a template to success. Isn't this the case everywhere? Even in developed countries education has become the default path to a successful life. Medicine and law are extremely competitive fields because they have a reputation for guaranteed success. There aren't many opportunities available for people without qualifications.