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For decades creatives and even non-creatives were able to be convinced that "Macs were better for audio, video, photography" without any analysis of benchmarks,

For decades creatives and even non-creatives were able to be convinced that "Macs were better for audio, video, photography" without any analysis of benchmarks, hardware differences, performance. This thought pattern transcended the PowerPC processor, to the off-the-shelf Intel processors that the competitors used, to the ARM processors the mobile devices used. Apple continuing that perception with at least software updates can continue to cement their hegemony amongst the minds of people. They're also good machines without the fluff! But merely showing support for that perception can help retain the premium pricing when even artists across the entire socioeconomic spectrum (heavily weighted to one side) will still prioritize getting Apple devices over other expenses, or at least aspire to and talk about those dreams.

billjings 7y ago
In my experience, musicians and other creative types care first and formost about getting results. So that means they need a toolchain that is flexible and rich enough to yield great results. Performance is a factor there, inasmuch as it constrains results. The toolchain part is pretty broad: this includes OS services (audio routing!), outboard hardware, DAWs and video editors, and third party plugins. When comparing macOS vs. Windows for audio, macOS wins for most people on those axes. Apple wins on OS services (audio routing is super annoying on windows) and on outboard hardware (USB3 works okay, but Thunderbolt is better, and it's a pain to get configured on a Windows machine). DAWs is mostly a wash with the exception of Logic, and third party plugins is a total wash. Even given that, Logic plays a strategic role in that ecosystem for Apple. As the more expensive option, Apple always runs the risk of being the secondary platform for application authors. Without Logic, other DAW vendors could be free to neglect their offerings on Mac. That ecosystem is healthy right now, but Logic is a key hedge. Oh, and lock-in is a big thing, too. Logic users may be a minority, but they're firmly locked into the Mac in a way that Reaper users aren't. Video is different. Many video creatives have made the switch to windows. There were two key reasons they have jumped: 1. Hardware. The Mac Pro was neglected for years, and third party graphics card support has always been better on Windows. Performance isn't paramount, but it does matter. 2. Final Cut Pro X. This completely changed the editing model from under a lot of pros, requiring them to completely rethink their workflows. Since this happened at the same time that hardware support was really bad, a lot of pros thought, "Well, if I'm going to have to rethink my workflow anyway..." It loosened lock-in at a time when the other parts of the platform were pretty weak.
- Macha 7y ago
  I'd be curious to see what OS audio routing support you're talking about. Maybe I'm just done, but I've not seen anything with the capabilities of voicemeter for Windows or Pulse or JACK for Linux. Specifically I'd like to have application A and B play to speakers, and have an output I can record that has application A and my microphone, without sending application B to that output or my microphone to my speakers. At least to me, this is what "audio routing" implies, so it'd be great if this feature was there and I'd just missed it.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    It's not in the OS - deliberately, because being able to record an audio stream you're playing makes it easy to copy. But you can pay money for apps that make it happen, and you can also Homebrew free options like BlackHole. (SoundFlower used to do this, but the more recent MacOS security updates seem to have nuked it.)
  - billjings 7y ago
    Simple stuff works out of the box in the OS for most flows; Soundflower (as mentioned elsewhere) gets you the rest of the way. macOS also has the capability to create an aggregate audio device from multiple devices. That's a pretty niche scenario, but I used it and I haven't been able to get something like that working on Windows at all. The fix was to shell out more $$$ to expand the inputs on my interface.
  - nonsapreiche 7y ago
    You can route the audio with soundflower
  - klodolph 7y ago
    Maybe if you install software like Voicemeter on Windows it's tolerable, but the experience of doing simple audio stuff on Windows still frustrates me in 2020. It's way too common that I see some application that has exclusive use of a device which means that everything else is going to be silent. JACK is great by itself, but it's one good piece of software in the giant mess that is Linux audio. On the Mac, you want something like Logic to run, you just go into the Logic preferences, set the output device and the buffer size. You get the low latency you want and other apps are free to use the same device as well. It's the only platform where I consistently get both "all the apps just work without messing with it" and "the pro apps have low latency". If you want desktop audio recording you can install iShowU or one of the others.
robertoandred 7y ago
Have you ever actually compared audio capabilities of Windows with macOS? (Or Android with iOS?) There's more to a computer than the clock speed of its processor.
- unixhero 7y ago
  You have the stage, why won't you expand on your point a little.
  - yoctoyotta 7y ago
    If I may jump in: One of the more critical issues with real-time audio processing on CPUs (as opposed to DSPs) is latency. And Core Audio in both, MacOS and iOS, is particularly good in this regard compared to the equivalent structures in Windows and Android (and probably also Linux). It's an older paper, but the general direction still holds up today: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267780532_Audio_latency_measurement_for_desktop_operating_systems_with_onboard_soundcards https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267780532_Audio_lat...

billjings 7y ago

In my experience, musicians and other creative types care first and formost about getting results. So that means they need a toolchain that is flexible and rich enough to yield great results. Performance is a factor there, inasmuch as it constrains results. The toolchain part is pretty broad: this includes OS services (audio routing!), outboard hardware, DAWs and video editors, and third party plugins. When comparing macOS vs. Windows for audio, macOS wins for most people on those axes. Apple wins on OS services (audio routing is super annoying on windows) and on outboard hardware (USB3 works okay, but Thunderbolt is better, and it's a pain to get configured on a Windows machine). DAWs is mostly a wash with the exception of Logic, and third party plugins is a total wash. Even given that, Logic plays a strategic role in that ecosystem for Apple. As the more expensive option, Apple always runs the risk of being the secondary platform for application authors. Without Logic, other DAW vendors could be free to neglect their offerings on Mac. That ecosystem is healthy right now, but Logic is a key hedge. Oh, and lock-in is a big thing, too. Logic users may be a minority, but they're firmly locked into the Mac in a way that Reaper users aren't. Video is different. Many video creatives have made the switch to windows. There were two key reasons they have jumped: 1. Hardware. The Mac Pro was neglected for years, and third party graphics card support has always been better on Windows. Performance isn't paramount, but it does matter. 2. Final Cut Pro X. This completely changed the editing model from under a lot of pros, requiring them to completely rethink their workflows. Since this happened at the same time that hardware support was really bad, a lot of pros thought, "Well, if I'm going to have to rethink my workflow anyway..." It loosened lock-in at a time when the other parts of the platform were pretty weak.

Macha 7y ago
I'd be curious to see what OS audio routing support you're talking about. Maybe I'm just done, but I've not seen anything with the capabilities of voicemeter for Windows or Pulse or JACK for Linux. Specifically I'd like to have application A and B play to speakers, and have an output I can record that has application A and my microphone, without sending application B to that output or my microphone to my speakers. At least to me, this is what "audio routing" implies, so it'd be great if this feature was there and I'd just missed it.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  It's not in the OS - deliberately, because being able to record an audio stream you're playing makes it easy to copy. But you can pay money for apps that make it happen, and you can also Homebrew free options like BlackHole. (SoundFlower used to do this, but the more recent MacOS security updates seem to have nuked it.)
- billjings 7y ago
  Simple stuff works out of the box in the OS for most flows; Soundflower (as mentioned elsewhere) gets you the rest of the way. macOS also has the capability to create an aggregate audio device from multiple devices. That's a pretty niche scenario, but I used it and I haven't been able to get something like that working on Windows at all. The fix was to shell out more $$$ to expand the inputs on my interface.
- nonsapreiche 7y ago
  You can route the audio with soundflower
- klodolph 7y ago
  Maybe if you install software like Voicemeter on Windows it's tolerable, but the experience of doing simple audio stuff on Windows still frustrates me in 2020. It's way too common that I see some application that has exclusive use of a device which means that everything else is going to be silent. JACK is great by itself, but it's one good piece of software in the giant mess that is Linux audio. On the Mac, you want something like Logic to run, you just go into the Logic preferences, set the output device and the buffer size. You get the low latency you want and other apps are free to use the same device as well. It's the only platform where I consistently get both "all the apps just work without messing with it" and "the pro apps have low latency". If you want desktop audio recording you can install iShowU or one of the others.

robertoandred 7y ago

Have you ever actually compared audio capabilities of Windows with macOS? (Or Android with iOS?) There's more to a computer than the clock speed of its processor.

unixhero 7y ago
You have the stage, why won't you expand on your point a little.
- yoctoyotta 7y ago
  If I may jump in: One of the more critical issues with real-time audio processing on CPUs (as opposed to DSPs) is latency. And Core Audio in both, MacOS and iOS, is particularly good in this regard compared to the equivalent structures in Windows and Android (and probably also Linux). It's an older paper, but the general direction still holds up today: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267780532_Audio_latency_measurement_for_desktop_operating_systems_with_onboard_soundcards https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267780532_Audio_lat...