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Learning to pass the test has failed us. Moving tests online won’t change that. The future of education is not moving tests online. It’s no tests at all. The f

Learning to pass the test has failed us. Moving tests online won’t change that. The future of education is not moving tests online. It’s no tests at all. The future of education is workshops. Teachers as mentors, not lecturers and truancy officers. Exercises instead of lectures. Peers instead of tests. Projects instead of grades. After completing a workshop, you have a project to show for it - not a score. After completing a workshop, you have an alumni network to draw on. Workshops are self-directed. There’s a schedule to the exercises, but enough room for people to go at different paces. Students work in the open, and learn from each other. Students are encouraged to collaborate, instead of punished as cheaters. Students compete by seeing what’s possible. Workshops are about learning to do great work, instead of learning to pass a test. Workshops are the future of education.

charlieflowers 6y ago
That was always a better idea. So what makes you think now is the time the world will move from its entrenched tradition and over to something more rational?
- alexmingoia 6y ago
  Over time people will avoid spending their time and money on something that provides little value. It's already happening. The generation growing up now has learned (the hard way) that tests and grades have little value in the real world. That it's a game, one that they don't enjoy and they don't need to win. COVID-19 has just accelerated this by moving schools online and laying them bare. Online there's no having lunch together, flirting, or getting dressed up. Online there's none of the things that made school more than a test. As the schools move online people see the emperor has no clothes.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Honestly, my experience of school was not just listening obediently as much as people make it to be here. And talking with my kids, the school was not like that to them - they miss the interactive parts of class. Now that homework is send by mail, bulk of it is like you describe. But the zoom classes are not like that and based on what my kids claim, it was not as dry in person. Maybe there are completely dystopian schools where no communication is going on. Everything exists somewhere. But it is just not true that it is universal experience of school.
perlpimp 6y ago
Can I say pair programming is a idea of the same sort. Code reviews take less time but vastly under-develop code awareness?
marcusverus 6y ago
The point of a college degree is that you have a document, form an accredited university, that represents that you have completed a course of study in a satisfactory way. As an employer hiring a new grad, you know, at a minimum "This person showed up to class for four years. They are capable of following instructions, of learning new material, and doing so above a baseline level of competency." What does an employer get in your scenario? Four years of 'projects' to sift through? How do they know what a good deliverable looks like for a CS 61A class at Southeastern Louisiana State University? No grades works great at Yale Law, when you're dealing with a group of the most talented and motivated young people on the planet. That will not work in a mass education system, where the need to make the grade is the only thing getting half of the kids out of bed in the morning.
- echelon 6y ago
  > What does an employer get in your scenario? Four years of 'projects' to sift through? How do they know what a good deliverable looks like for a CS 61A class at Southeastern Louisiana State University? As someone who participates in interviewing undergraduate candidates, I prefer those that have projects to talk about over those who tout their GPA. Project work correlates very well with aptitude and initiative. Projects require deep understanding, research, trial and error, and fully integrative thinking. There's no better way to learn and grow.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    Yes but that’s because the current education system is geared toward GPA. If all of the students you interview have years worth or projects, how would you differentiate? Better yet, if they go through a university or trade school and they all complete the same projects, how do you know who is actually good? I’ve run into this when interviewing or going through resumes of entry-level engineers. A lot of them will have a similar senior capstone project, so now I’m back to looking at GPA or some other signal. “Yes yes you worked on CMU’s autonomous vehicles program. So did the other 10 candidates, but tell me what makes you truly unique? “ etc.
    - 6y ago
bachmeier 6y ago
The lecture is still common in the college classroom, but there's been a lot of movement away from it over the last couple decades. For instance, I've for quite a few years now taught a data analysis class for economics majors, where the biggest part of the grade comes from a project rather than exams. Nonetheless, the lecture-exam approach will always be prominent. It's just a more efficient approach that works well enough for many purposes.
bsldld 6y ago
Here is a very good RSA animation[0] on Sir Ken Robinson's talk on the same subject. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
- alexmingoia 6y ago
  Wow that’s a great talk. Thanks for sharing!
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
I agree with you in many ways. Lots of learning can happen much more effectively in a project environment. I would say about 70% of a modern STEM degree can be based on projects. But lectures have their place. A lot of times, you need information transfer from someone who knows a lot to someone who knows little. I am in favor of video lectures with active learning components to self-test yourself. Also, subjects like Mathematics, require a lot of practice of, perhaps, boring questions. While some practice can and should be done collaboratively, a lot of it has to be done individually. There is no substitute for that.
new2628 6y ago
This sounds reasonable and it is also surprisingly similar to the past of education, e.g. apprenticeships in guilds.
wontonzealot 6y ago
> Learning to pass the test has failed us. I know the bigger point you're making, but it has dawned on me recently that life after school is always about passing the test. Every interview that I've faced has required me to study in order to pass the test to get in.

charlieflowers 6y ago

That was always a better idea. So what makes you think now is the time the world will move from its entrenched tradition and over to something more rational?

alexmingoia 6y ago
Over time people will avoid spending their time and money on something that provides little value. It's already happening. The generation growing up now has learned (the hard way) that tests and grades have little value in the real world. That it's a game, one that they don't enjoy and they don't need to win. COVID-19 has just accelerated this by moving schools online and laying them bare. Online there's no having lunch together, flirting, or getting dressed up. Online there's none of the things that made school more than a test. As the schools move online people see the emperor has no clothes.
- watwut 6y ago
  Honestly, my experience of school was not just listening obediently as much as people make it to be here. And talking with my kids, the school was not like that to them - they miss the interactive parts of class. Now that homework is send by mail, bulk of it is like you describe. But the zoom classes are not like that and based on what my kids claim, it was not as dry in person. Maybe there are completely dystopian schools where no communication is going on. Everything exists somewhere. But it is just not true that it is universal experience of school.

perlpimp 6y ago

Can I say pair programming is a idea of the same sort. Code reviews take less time but vastly under-develop code awareness?

marcusverus 6y ago

The point of a college degree is that you have a document, form an accredited university, that represents that you have completed a course of study in a satisfactory way. As an employer hiring a new grad, you know, at a minimum "This person showed up to class for four years. They are capable of following instructions, of learning new material, and doing so above a baseline level of competency." What does an employer get in your scenario? Four years of 'projects' to sift through? How do they know what a good deliverable looks like for a CS 61A class at Southeastern Louisiana State University? No grades works great at Yale Law, when you're dealing with a group of the most talented and motivated young people on the planet. That will not work in a mass education system, where the need to make the grade is the only thing getting half of the kids out of bed in the morning.

echelon 6y ago
> What does an employer get in your scenario? Four years of 'projects' to sift through? How do they know what a good deliverable looks like for a CS 61A class at Southeastern Louisiana State University? As someone who participates in interviewing undergraduate candidates, I prefer those that have projects to talk about over those who tout their GPA. Project work correlates very well with aptitude and initiative. Projects require deep understanding, research, trial and error, and fully integrative thinking. There's no better way to learn and grow.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Yes but that’s because the current education system is geared toward GPA. If all of the students you interview have years worth or projects, how would you differentiate? Better yet, if they go through a university or trade school and they all complete the same projects, how do you know who is actually good? I’ve run into this when interviewing or going through resumes of entry-level engineers. A lot of them will have a similar senior capstone project, so now I’m back to looking at GPA or some other signal. “Yes yes you worked on CMU’s autonomous vehicles program. So did the other 10 candidates, but tell me what makes you truly unique? “ etc.
  - 6y ago

bachmeier 6y ago

The lecture is still common in the college classroom, but there's been a lot of movement away from it over the last couple decades. For instance, I've for quite a few years now taught a data analysis class for economics majors, where the biggest part of the grade comes from a project rather than exams. Nonetheless, the lecture-exam approach will always be prominent. It's just a more efficient approach that works well enough for many purposes.

bsldld 6y ago

Here is a very good RSA animation[0] on Sir Ken Robinson's talk on the same subject. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

alexmingoia 6y ago
Wow that’s a great talk. Thanks for sharing!

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

I agree with you in many ways. Lots of learning can happen much more effectively in a project environment. I would say about 70% of a modern STEM degree can be based on projects. But lectures have their place. A lot of times, you need information transfer from someone who knows a lot to someone who knows little. I am in favor of video lectures with active learning components to self-test yourself. Also, subjects like Mathematics, require a lot of practice of, perhaps, boring questions. While some practice can and should be done collaboratively, a lot of it has to be done individually. There is no substitute for that.

new2628 6y ago

This sounds reasonable and it is also surprisingly similar to the past of education, e.g. apprenticeships in guilds.

wontonzealot 6y ago

> Learning to pass the test has failed us. I know the bigger point you're making, but it has dawned on me recently that life after school is always about passing the test. Every interview that I've faced has required me to study in order to pass the test to get in.