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I've been to LIDL / Schwarz Group headquarters in Heilbronn last year, and while they're a super young company with a vibrant atmosphere (which quite unique amo

I've been to LIDL / Schwarz Group headquarters in Heilbronn last year, and while they're a super young company with a vibrant atmosphere (which quite unique amongst large German companies), IMO they are ultimately too much attached to their legacy cash cows. They are not streamlining retail processes because they earn too much money with it. They have great IT talent, which is building fancy pilots all day, but refuse roll them out because it will cannibalize their core business. Their core business is keeping people in the store for as long as possible so they buy more stuff. On the logistics side, they have been the first large-scale retailer to digitize the EUR-pallets (they have RFID-based plastic pallets) which allows for some pretty fancy stuff. They roll out their pallet processing tech at the suppliers' plant and have logistics data in their systems even before it is loaded on the suppliers' trucks.

barbecue_sauce 6y ago
I've only been to Lidls in the US, but their stores seem pretty streamlined to me.
- forkerenok 6y ago
  I think GP means that they are unwilling to open up their logistics mojo to other efforts in fears that it would interfere with their well-run retail operations.
- dna_polymerase 6y ago
  In Germany, their store managers do inventory manually, which means they have to order items they run low on, no tech insight. Their attempt at setting up SAP failed after burning 500 million on it. Delivery robots, Amazon-style prototypes for cashier-less systems, heck, even Instacart like delivery are nowhere to be found. If Amazon decided to enter the German supermarket landscape, Lidl (also, Aldi and others) would be in serious trouble.
  - verst 6y ago
    Trader Joe's in the US is owned by Aldi Nord. How come Trader Joe's is doing well here in the US despite Amazon? I don't know anything about the operations and logistics of Trader Joe's but from a consumer perspective the stores seem very streamlined. In many ways it reminds me of Lidl in Germany (more so than Aldi).
    - neuronic 6y ago
      Because the person doesn't know what they are talking about. Germans will never prefer Amazon over known local stores - it's already enough to be an American company these days. People know what that means and they don't want it. Wal-Mart completely crashed and burned in Germany and it already started at the weird greeting person at the entry. When Germans see this, the business is basically already bust. Keep the fake customer relations smiles, Germans find that creepy and annoying. I would bet it would literally be better to have some person yelling at people to move faster. And then comes workers rights. Germany won't have any of the degrading bullshit like Wal-Mart or others in the US (good luck, Tesla in Berlin). Running a business profitable in Germany is way different from doing the same in the United States. That's both for legal/bureaucratic reasons and also customer expectations. People in Germany also bring their own bags and actively don't want some slave to bag their items. It's a real skill not to piss off other Germans in a supermarket when you scramble to bag your stuff and take longer than a few seconds. In my experience, Aldi cashiers (well-paid btw) are better than any robot you could put there. Their speed is insane (remember to keep up with the bagging or you will get evil stares or comments for being a moron). The market is completely different.
      - didsomeonesay 6y ago
        > I would bet it would literally be better to have some person yelling at people to move faster. You are on to something. This is almost the classic Aldi check-out experience in Germany. Also, for not putting your cart in the correct location.
      - klarws 6y ago
        > Germany won't have any of the degrading bullshit like Wal-Mart or others in the US. In some areas yes, I hear that VW workers are paid well. In other areas, you have 400 Euro jobs and forced labor below minimum wage if the "job center" (formerly social security) decides that you need to be a slave. I don't understand why people here defend Europe as if it were the 1980s. Those times are long gone, perhaps folks here have a sheltered life and only listen to state propaganda.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>building fancy pilots all day, but refuse roll them out because it will cannibalize their core business That's the big difference I've noticed between German and US companies. In German companies if you are an exec that brought success to the company in the past then your word is the law and focus is on keeping the status quo and make sure that any new ventures don't make existing higher ups obsolete. Whereas in US tech companies innovation is the primary focus regardless if someone's division ends up obsolete and needs to be let go. Famous examples being how Netflix pivoted from DVD rentals or Tony Fadell, creator of the iPod who was tasked on delivering an iPhone prototype back in the day and failed as his team's design was basically an iPod based phone which lost in favor of the current iOS iPhone we all know today. During the live iPhone launch demo, Steve Jobs deletes his contact from the favorites list basically saying "you're fired" and the rest is history. You won't see something like this in a German company where age and experience in the company is more valued than being a visionary for future market trends. That's why you'll never see the big German car manufacturers pull off a Tesla even though they have more resources. Can't pivot and cannibalize the current products and have to shit-can some famous higher ups that were successful in the past.
- jotm 6y ago
  They are more conservative. Blockbuster, Sears. VW, BMW.
  - asjw 6y ago
    But also Siemens, Bosch, Bayer, Lufthansa Systems Btw, even though I'm a huge Ferrari fan, the research being made at Daimler AG (Mercedes) is astonishing, not only in Formula 1, their self driving trucks are an incredible piece of technology
- lowdose 6y ago
  It's the typical innovators problem you describe and that is pretty international. I do think you have a point about culture and in Europe in general software engineering is not seen as such a value adding activity as in the US. Salaries are less than $100k even in senior positions and I think because of this more talent has moved to the cutting edge technology companies in the US than Europe wants to admit.

barbecue_sauce 6y ago

I've only been to Lidls in the US, but their stores seem pretty streamlined to me.

forkerenok 6y ago
I think GP means that they are unwilling to open up their logistics mojo to other efforts in fears that it would interfere with their well-run retail operations.
dna_polymerase 6y ago
In Germany, their store managers do inventory manually, which means they have to order items they run low on, no tech insight. Their attempt at setting up SAP failed after burning 500 million on it. Delivery robots, Amazon-style prototypes for cashier-less systems, heck, even Instacart like delivery are nowhere to be found. If Amazon decided to enter the German supermarket landscape, Lidl (also, Aldi and others) would be in serious trouble.
- verst 6y ago
  Trader Joe's in the US is owned by Aldi Nord. How come Trader Joe's is doing well here in the US despite Amazon? I don't know anything about the operations and logistics of Trader Joe's but from a consumer perspective the stores seem very streamlined. In many ways it reminds me of Lidl in Germany (more so than Aldi).
  - neuronic 6y ago
    Because the person doesn't know what they are talking about. Germans will never prefer Amazon over known local stores - it's already enough to be an American company these days. People know what that means and they don't want it. Wal-Mart completely crashed and burned in Germany and it already started at the weird greeting person at the entry. When Germans see this, the business is basically already bust. Keep the fake customer relations smiles, Germans find that creepy and annoying. I would bet it would literally be better to have some person yelling at people to move faster. And then comes workers rights. Germany won't have any of the degrading bullshit like Wal-Mart or others in the US (good luck, Tesla in Berlin). Running a business profitable in Germany is way different from doing the same in the United States. That's both for legal/bureaucratic reasons and also customer expectations. People in Germany also bring their own bags and actively don't want some slave to bag their items. It's a real skill not to piss off other Germans in a supermarket when you scramble to bag your stuff and take longer than a few seconds. In my experience, Aldi cashiers (well-paid btw) are better than any robot you could put there. Their speed is insane (remember to keep up with the bagging or you will get evil stares or comments for being a moron). The market is completely different.
    - didsomeonesay 6y ago
      > I would bet it would literally be better to have some person yelling at people to move faster. You are on to something. This is almost the classic Aldi check-out experience in Germany. Also, for not putting your cart in the correct location.
    - klarws 6y ago
      > Germany won't have any of the degrading bullshit like Wal-Mart or others in the US. In some areas yes, I hear that VW workers are paid well. In other areas, you have 400 Euro jobs and forced labor below minimum wage if the "job center" (formerly social security) decides that you need to be a slave. I don't understand why people here defend Europe as if it were the 1980s. Those times are long gone, perhaps folks here have a sheltered life and only listen to state propaganda.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

>building fancy pilots all day, but refuse roll them out because it will cannibalize their core business That's the big difference I've noticed between German and US companies. In German companies if you are an exec that brought success to the company in the past then your word is the law and focus is on keeping the status quo and make sure that any new ventures don't make existing higher ups obsolete. Whereas in US tech companies innovation is the primary focus regardless if someone's division ends up obsolete and needs to be let go. Famous examples being how Netflix pivoted from DVD rentals or Tony Fadell, creator of the iPod who was tasked on delivering an iPhone prototype back in the day and failed as his team's design was basically an iPod based phone which lost in favor of the current iOS iPhone we all know today. During the live iPhone launch demo, Steve Jobs deletes his contact from the favorites list basically saying "you're fired" and the rest is history. You won't see something like this in a German company where age and experience in the company is more valued than being a visionary for future market trends. That's why you'll never see the big German car manufacturers pull off a Tesla even though they have more resources. Can't pivot and cannibalize the current products and have to shit-can some famous higher ups that were successful in the past.

jotm 6y ago
They are more conservative. Blockbuster, Sears. VW, BMW.
- asjw 6y ago
  But also Siemens, Bosch, Bayer, Lufthansa Systems Btw, even though I'm a huge Ferrari fan, the research being made at Daimler AG (Mercedes) is astonishing, not only in Formula 1, their self driving trucks are an incredible piece of technology
lowdose 6y ago
It's the typical innovators problem you describe and that is pretty international. I do think you have a point about culture and in Europe in general software engineering is not seen as such a value adding activity as in the US. Salaries are less than $100k even in senior positions and I think because of this more talent has moved to the cutting edge technology companies in the US than Europe wants to admit.