5 ms·

I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking

I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than accidents in cars. I'd rather not have a car for my daily commute. Driving my large family vehicle for my job is wasteful and inefficient. I almost never need to carry anything large or heavy on my daily commute. I work less than 20 miles from home. I don't need a daily commuter vehicle with more than 2.5x this range. I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof, would be perfect to augment my existing transportation options.

lazyjones 7y ago
> I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof, Why don't you own a Twizy already?
globular-toast 7y ago
> I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than accidents in cars. It shouldn't be a mystery why motorcycle accidents are more common. A superbike like a Yamaha R1 is capable of 0-100mph in less than 6 seconds, all in first gear. Ownership of an R1 is within the reach of many under 25s and most enthusiastic under 30s. Contrast that with a supercar which, for most people, will be out of reach until much later in life, if ever, and even then is such a big investment that most just sit around in air-conditioned garages rather than hitting the B-roads of England every Sunday morning. None of that means that commuting on a more sensible motorcycle is particularly dangerous in the grand scheme of things.
- m-ee 7y ago
  I ride, and know a lot of people who do, and the amount of injuries from road debris or cars turning left without looking dwarf the crashes from just going too fast. This might be regional though, most places don’t have Bay Area traffic.
  - http-teapot 7y ago
    That’s how I got my first and last accident. Double parked car made a U-turn in a commercial street without signaling. My front tire got caught under his car, bringing me to a complete stop and flipping me over. I was only doing 15mph. That ended it for me, bike was totaled, wife decided I stopped and I had no intention in getting involved in a more serious accident. I miss riding, I miss the sensation of freedom.
    - globular-toast 7y ago
      > wife decided I stopped > I miss the sensation of freedom I'm not surprised.
  - kiliantics 7y ago
    Amen. Cagers on their phones instead of watching the road.
  - nsl73 7y ago
    In the United States most motorcycle accidents involving more than one vehicle the motorcycle is not at fault. It’s really common for a car driver to not use a blinker, or not see a motorcycle and cause an accident with a motorcyclist.
    - lstodd 7y ago
      Same thing everywhere else. Cars not signalling, suddenly opening doors into traffic, idiots jumping out of bushes etc etc. The distant second place is road condition - surprise potholes, open manholes, spits of concrete, pools of lubricant and cooling fluid after previous crashes is also nice. And only then comes something that can be remotely called reckless riding.
- trothamel 7y ago
  I don't know why you're downvoted - I might disagree with part of what you wrote, but it's a reasonable point. I will suggest that motorcycles are inherently more dangerous. A car has four points of contact, so like a table, there's some inherent stability to it. A motorcycle's two points of contact means that stability has to be in some sense active, which seems problematic.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    motorcycles are very hard to tip over under normal circumstances. it's only when you start sliding that the vehicle becomes unstable. if you do this during a turn, it's much more difficult to recover than in a car. still, unless you're driving at the limit, the main risk is probably hitting or getting hit by other vehicles. most of the "inherently more dangerous" comes from having essentially zero protection in a crash compared to a modern car.
  - sudosysgen 7y ago
    Not really, no. Motorcycles are inherently stable due to a combination of gyroscopic stability, wheel geometry and rake geometry. They are so stable in fact, that at high speeds one needs to use a technique called counter-steering in order to induce a gyroscopic and geometric reaction that sends the motorcycle into the required position. This technique is also used by some bicycle riders, to a smaller extent and also partly subconsciously. Motorcycles are very stable. In comparison, the steering and suspension dynamics of four wheeled vehicles have to be very finely tuned in order to avoid feedback effects, instabilities, and this tuning has to be balanced with phenomenons such as oversteer and understeer. Overconstraining is also the cost for many issues, as is the consumer demand for bad form factors that lead to loss of control, rolls, and sometimes even death-wobbles. Tricycles, such as this one, at least aren't overconstrained, but they are a lot less stable as they have neither the inherent reactive stability of bicycles nor the balanced resistance to torque while maintaining stability. This is further compounded by demand for non-optimal geometries, such as the one in the article, that lead to even less stability. This obviously doesn't apply to vehicles such as the Yamaha Nikken.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  Stereotyping motorcycles is common; I never had a sport bike and none of my friends had one, so a Yamaha R1, the most useless bike on a street, is a bad argument in a discussion but fairly common. That 3 wheeled vehicle is fine for commuting or small shopping, you never consider going there on a R1, but on a mid-range city bike or adv bike you can do it pretty well.
krtong 7y ago
A motorcycle on its own is a perfectly balanced machine. It takes a fairly large assemblage of human errors to wrestle one to the ground. It only happens more often with bikes than cars because bikes give you the freedom to write as big a check as you think you can cash. There's an expansive gap in knowledge between one's M1 certificate and real-road proficiency. Few ever take it seriously, and would rather "send it" over the gap the hard way, but with the internet, the steep and often-painful learning curve is entirely optional. A couple cones, a parking lot, and a few drills from the right tutors on youTube can help unlock your machine's braking, accelerating and cornering capabilities, all while riding relatively slowly in a protected environment. Once you know what 100% of your ability is, being ready for the street simply takes having the common sense to leave half of it in reserve for bad weather and the dumbest thing someone else can do at any given moment--And knowing how to intuit all the potential stupidity around you. The problem with these sorts of motorcycle-like cars is that you still need a regular car. You may not need cargo space or passenger seats all the time, but you do need them some of the time. Plus a motorcycle can fit in a parking space with another car. This thing can't. It's just a second car, but small. You also can't lane-split with this, or park it wherever you want. You'll look like a genius that one time you find parallel parking too small for a normal car, big enough for you, but you could've had your pick of any space between any vehicles with a motorbike. And you're just as relegated to traffic jams as you would be in a much bigger, more comfortable vehicle. Okay, sure, on a motorcycle you can get yourself into trouble, but only because you're free to do whatever you want. You can split lanes at a hundred miles an hour, or pull wheelies through intersections. Or fly around that corner and gas it hard on greasy painted crosswalk lines. There's rarely ever traffic physically blocking your bike, or lights blinking on your dashboard electronically rescinding your input to "absolutely send it" like you would find while driving your car, but if you didn't have those limitations while driving, don't you think you would figure out how not to crash? Just putting this out there: you can find an older Honda CB750 or whatever for a few grand--much cheaper than a smart car or something similar. Not enough power to get you into trouble, just enough power to get you out of it. Good looks for days, doesn't take up too much space in the garage and you'll never walk by it and regret owning it. Or if you'd rather not deal with the accompanying protective outfit, there's lots of mopeds and ebikes that may fit the bill too.
AdrianB1 7y ago
I am on the third motorcycle in 15 years; I don't wear any special clothing when I commute and commuting with the motorcycle takes 1/3 of the time at rush hours versus car or public transportation. Most of the summer I just ride with a helmet and gloves, if it is colder I wear a jacket. For commuting, accidents in the city are less serious than on the highway or twisties. Yes, for rainy days I have a pair of waterproof overpants in the top case and a pair of waterproof gloves. The jackets are all waterproof (Goretex or similar). I got soaked wet while commuting on the bicycle, never on the motorcycle.
sudosysgen 7y ago
I would rather get into an accident on a motorcycle than in this death trap.

lazyjones 7y ago

> I would love to buy a small electric vehicle, but the cost is prohibitive. A small vehicle, safer than a motorcycle and more idiot proof, Why don't you own a Twizy already?

globular-toast 7y ago

> I'd rather not have a motorcycle. I'd rather not have to suit up in special clothing to try and reduce the chances of injury from accidents which, from talking to motorcycle riding friends, seem to be strangely more common than accidents in cars. It shouldn't be a mystery why motorcycle accidents are more common. A superbike like a Yamaha R1 is capable of 0-100mph in less than 6 seconds, all in first gear. Ownership of an R1 is within the reach of many under 25s and most enthusiastic under 30s. Contrast that with a supercar which, for most people, will be out of reach until much later in life, if ever, and even then is such a big investment that most just sit around in air-conditioned garages rather than hitting the B-roads of England every Sunday morning. None of that means that commuting on a more sensible motorcycle is particularly dangerous in the grand scheme of things.

m-ee 7y ago
I ride, and know a lot of people who do, and the amount of injuries from road debris or cars turning left without looking dwarf the crashes from just going too fast. This might be regional though, most places don’t have Bay Area traffic.
- http-teapot 7y ago
  That’s how I got my first and last accident. Double parked car made a U-turn in a commercial street without signaling. My front tire got caught under his car, bringing me to a complete stop and flipping me over. I was only doing 15mph. That ended it for me, bike was totaled, wife decided I stopped and I had no intention in getting involved in a more serious accident. I miss riding, I miss the sensation of freedom.
  - globular-toast 7y ago
    > wife decided I stopped > I miss the sensation of freedom I'm not surprised.
- kiliantics 7y ago
  Amen. Cagers on their phones instead of watching the road.
- nsl73 7y ago
  In the United States most motorcycle accidents involving more than one vehicle the motorcycle is not at fault. It’s really common for a car driver to not use a blinker, or not see a motorcycle and cause an accident with a motorcyclist.
  - lstodd 7y ago
    Same thing everywhere else. Cars not signalling, suddenly opening doors into traffic, idiots jumping out of bushes etc etc. The distant second place is road condition - surprise potholes, open manholes, spits of concrete, pools of lubricant and cooling fluid after previous crashes is also nice. And only then comes something that can be remotely called reckless riding.
trothamel 7y ago
I don't know why you're downvoted - I might disagree with part of what you wrote, but it's a reasonable point. I will suggest that motorcycles are inherently more dangerous. A car has four points of contact, so like a table, there's some inherent stability to it. A motorcycle's two points of contact means that stability has to be in some sense active, which seems problematic.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  motorcycles are very hard to tip over under normal circumstances. it's only when you start sliding that the vehicle becomes unstable. if you do this during a turn, it's much more difficult to recover than in a car. still, unless you're driving at the limit, the main risk is probably hitting or getting hit by other vehicles. most of the "inherently more dangerous" comes from having essentially zero protection in a crash compared to a modern car.
- sudosysgen 7y ago
  Not really, no. Motorcycles are inherently stable due to a combination of gyroscopic stability, wheel geometry and rake geometry. They are so stable in fact, that at high speeds one needs to use a technique called counter-steering in order to induce a gyroscopic and geometric reaction that sends the motorcycle into the required position. This technique is also used by some bicycle riders, to a smaller extent and also partly subconsciously. Motorcycles are very stable. In comparison, the steering and suspension dynamics of four wheeled vehicles have to be very finely tuned in order to avoid feedback effects, instabilities, and this tuning has to be balanced with phenomenons such as oversteer and understeer. Overconstraining is also the cost for many issues, as is the consumer demand for bad form factors that lead to loss of control, rolls, and sometimes even death-wobbles. Tricycles, such as this one, at least aren't overconstrained, but they are a lot less stable as they have neither the inherent reactive stability of bicycles nor the balanced resistance to torque while maintaining stability. This is further compounded by demand for non-optimal geometries, such as the one in the article, that lead to even less stability. This obviously doesn't apply to vehicles such as the Yamaha Nikken.
AdrianB1 7y ago
Stereotyping motorcycles is common; I never had a sport bike and none of my friends had one, so a Yamaha R1, the most useless bike on a street, is a bad argument in a discussion but fairly common. That 3 wheeled vehicle is fine for commuting or small shopping, you never consider going there on a R1, but on a mid-range city bike or adv bike you can do it pretty well.

krtong 7y ago

A motorcycle on its own is a perfectly balanced machine. It takes a fairly large assemblage of human errors to wrestle one to the ground. It only happens more often with bikes than cars because bikes give you the freedom to write as big a check as you think you can cash. There's an expansive gap in knowledge between one's M1 certificate and real-road proficiency. Few ever take it seriously, and would rather "send it" over the gap the hard way, but with the internet, the steep and often-painful learning curve is entirely optional. A couple cones, a parking lot, and a few drills from the right tutors on youTube can help unlock your machine's braking, accelerating and cornering capabilities, all while riding relatively slowly in a protected environment. Once you know what 100% of your ability is, being ready for the street simply takes having the common sense to leave half of it in reserve for bad weather and the dumbest thing someone else can do at any given moment--And knowing how to intuit all the potential stupidity around you. The problem with these sorts of motorcycle-like cars is that you still need a regular car. You may not need cargo space or passenger seats all the time, but you do need them some of the time. Plus a motorcycle can fit in a parking space with another car. This thing can't. It's just a second car, but small. You also can't lane-split with this, or park it wherever you want. You'll look like a genius that one time you find parallel parking too small for a normal car, big enough for you, but you could've had your pick of any space between any vehicles with a motorbike. And you're just as relegated to traffic jams as you would be in a much bigger, more comfortable vehicle. Okay, sure, on a motorcycle you can get yourself into trouble, but only because you're free to do whatever you want. You can split lanes at a hundred miles an hour, or pull wheelies through intersections. Or fly around that corner and gas it hard on greasy painted crosswalk lines. There's rarely ever traffic physically blocking your bike, or lights blinking on your dashboard electronically rescinding your input to "absolutely send it" like you would find while driving your car, but if you didn't have those limitations while driving, don't you think you would figure out how not to crash? Just putting this out there: you can find an older Honda CB750 or whatever for a few grand--much cheaper than a smart car or something similar. Not enough power to get you into trouble, just enough power to get you out of it. Good looks for days, doesn't take up too much space in the garage and you'll never walk by it and regret owning it. Or if you'd rather not deal with the accompanying protective outfit, there's lots of mopeds and ebikes that may fit the bill too.

AdrianB1 7y ago

I am on the third motorcycle in 15 years; I don't wear any special clothing when I commute and commuting with the motorcycle takes 1/3 of the time at rush hours versus car or public transportation. Most of the summer I just ride with a helmet and gloves, if it is colder I wear a jacket. For commuting, accidents in the city are less serious than on the highway or twisties. Yes, for rainy days I have a pair of waterproof overpants in the top case and a pair of waterproof gloves. The jackets are all waterproof (Goretex or similar). I got soaked wet while commuting on the bicycle, never on the motorcycle.

sudosysgen 7y ago

I would rather get into an accident on a motorcycle than in this death trap.