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Yeah, that is a good question. A worker can reasonably claim that they should not be asked to break the law as part of their job. I am curious to see how all th
by mgolawala 6y ago
Yeah, that is a good question. A worker can reasonably claim that they should not be asked to break the law as part of their job. I am curious to see how all this plays out.
Having said that, I read somewhere that there are like 10,000 employees at Tesla's Fremont plant. Do we really think the County would actually follow through and arrest 10,000 people? Thank Goodness we do not live in such a society.. Perhaps they would arrest just the management, perhaps just Musk? Shut off the power instead? Ugh.
- wolco 6y agoAnyone fired would have an easy case to win. If it came to that generous packages will be offered.
- WalterBright 6y agoIs such an order by a county executive even legitimate?
- gagege 6y agoThat so few are even asking this question in insane to me.
- mirimir 6y agoI'm guessing that it needs to be tested in court. Or at least, that Musk has decided that it does.
- throwaway_jobs 6y agoPlenty of people are asking, Tesla has already brought a declaratory action in the courts to ask them. The thing is that is how things are done legally, but Musk is putting the cart before the horse by breaking the order. In other words right or wrong say police show up to enforce the order and order the factory shutdown and musk/employees fail to obey...failing to obey the officers orders in generally a charge unto itself at that point never mind the violation of the county order.
- dragonwriter 6y agoThat's because people who actually care rather than feigning curiosity can read the order, which cites its statutory authority, and then can go and read the statutory authority, too.
- masonic 6y agoPeople who actually care can drill down into the appropriate codes and see that your derisive tone is wholly unsupported by fact. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23164535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23164535 You have an ugly habit of trying to silence critique by talking down to people using specific claims and relying on their inability to research when it is your claims that are false.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> People who actually care can drill down into the appropriate codes and see that your derisive tone is wholly unsupported by fact. > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23164535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23164535 I've responded directly to that post with direct links to the relevant orders, but it's funny that you make that claim and point to a post (of yours, I note) that is both derisive in tone and almost wholly unsupported by fact (making a claim that is both literally false and which refers to a set of state orders that isn't, and doesn't include, the only state order relevant to the discussion, the shelter-in-place order issued by the Director of Public Health.)
- masonic 6y agoI've responded directly to that post with direct links to the relevant orders You're talking in circles. The point here is that you repeatedly said that Newsome's orders cites criminal statute law, e.g. "...the order, which cites its statutory authority (to shut down Tesla et al)" And it doesn't. You can keep pretending that it does and telling people who tried to point that out in a courteous way to, in effect, "go look it up", but I did, and I quoted same. (Feel free to quote any supporting criminal statutes now, which you've been oddly reluctant to do.) And today's Wisconsin Supreme Court overturn of its Governor's shelter in place order clearly demonstrates that even a Governor can't exceed his authority, even if s/he thinks it well-intentioned.
- squnch 6y agoAlmost all US case law has held that any jurisdiction can make anything illegal unless there's a specific higher-ranking (state or federal) law protecting that act from being made illegal.
- masonic 6y agoEven without any supporting statute law?
- dragonwriter 6y agoThere is supporting state statute law for public health orders to prevent communicable disease; that statute law is also what makes it a crime to violate such orders.
- masonic 6y agoOkay, which Code and which Section for CA?
- dragonwriter 6y agoI'll just quote the first part (after the rather extended title) of the Alameda County order, which cites the statutory authority both for the order itself and for criminal prosecution of violations: > Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. (California Health and Safety Code § 120295, et seq.; Cal. Penal Code §§ 69, 148(a)(1)) > UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF CALIFORNIA HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTIONS 101040, 101085, AND 120175, THE HEALTH OFFICER OF THE COUNTY OF ALAMEDA (“HEALTH OFFICER”) ORDERS:
- ghransa 6y agoInteresting scenario, I wonder if turning off the power would would work considering their business is solar and battery production.