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I have revoked my donations until they close their pirate library. Sorry but let's call a spade a spade. They admit: > multiple readers can access a digital bo

by chx 6y ago

I have revoked my donations until they close their pirate library. Sorry but let's call a spade a spade. They admit: > multiple readers can access a digital book simultaneously with the only caveat being it is borrowed for two weeks but let's face it, most value of a book comes from its first reading -- and what stops you from "borrowing" it again, anyways. It's been a gigantic disappointment for me to see them do this and not back but try to placate the authors with weasel words and an opt out.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
I’m sorry to hear this. I will make an additional donation on your behalf. I can appreciate how authors feel, but they must also realize copyright laws are asymmetrical (tilted heavily towards copyright owners) and in these times, many have no access to their local public library. They are essentially robbed of access to the book materials their tax dollars (which pays an author) have paid for during this time. It’s been a gigantic disappointment to see authors respond negatively to this effort (considering this once-in-a-century event), and I will never buy a book again from one of these authors.
- chx 6y ago
  I also find it amusing that sofware developers do not recognize any more how we are on the same side in this fight. Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. It's an imperfect comparison but the current situation is not a reason to just discard the law. It might not be the best law, the place to fight that is in Congress and not on the back of authors most of whom are not in the best financial state to say the least.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    You assume authors are losing revenue from this effort. It is likely this revenue would never have been realized regardless of the Archive’s efforts. A piece of content copied doesn’t mean someone would’ve paid for it. As an aside, many SaaS products have given away their product for free due to COVID and widespread forced WFH. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/347840 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/347840
    - therealcamino 6y ago
      "As an aside, many SaaS products have given away their product for free due to COVID and widespread forced WFH." I'm sure a lot of authors would have contributed their work to the effort, if they'd been asked. But they weren't asked. It's difficult to imagine how you'd similarly force SaaS companies to give away their products for free during the pandemic -- lucky for them -- but if you found a way to do it technically, how do you think they'd react?
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Honest question: how do you propose a non profit online library ask every author for written permission, while also considering the legal interests of their publishers?
        therealcamino 6y ago
        Sounds difficult, but not a justification for breaking copyright laws, or interfering with people's livelihoods without asking.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        gojomo 6y ago
        Any author who notices the Archive's temporary 'National Emergency Library' affecting their 'livelihood' can opt out quite easily.
        therealcamino 6y ago
        The HN consensus is always that only opt-in is acceptable when it comes to online privacy or anything else that affects them personally. Apparently opt-out is fine for everybody else. You put 'livelihood' in scare quotes, but I don't understand what's deserving of mockery. Writers make their living by selling their writing.
  - mcherm 6y ago
    > Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. I think that is a fair comparison. As a software developer, I would JUMP at the opportunity to do that. Partly because it would be an opportunity to help sustain the world through this time of crisis at no real cost to myself (perhaps some opportunity cost). And partly because it would serve as free advertising.
    - therealcamino 6y ago
      That's not quite what happened here -- your software is given away whether or not you want to jump on that opportunity, because they don't care what you want. If you happen to notice what's going on, you can ask them to stop. And you don't get any goodwill from giving it away, because it was the Internet Archive and not you that made the gesture. Honestly they would have gotten huge buy-in from authors if they'd bothered to ask. What bothers me more is the intellectual dishonesty of their FAQ's.
  - aeturnum 6y ago
    I mean, imagine they did. So a huge group of people get to try your software for free. There's a system to try and cut them off at two weeks but it might fail. This is basically free marketing. All sorts of people who may never have tried your software try it. Nearly all of them don't buy it, but some do. It doesn't cost you any money and you're able to help people in need. There's evidence that, in general, piracy lowers sales, but the specifics are complex and uncertain[1]. Piracy can have positive impacts on the fortunes of the original artist. I think that a crisis like this is exactly the time to try new and experimental ways of making things available. [1] https://marketly.com/does-piracy-impact-sales/ https://marketly.com/does-piracy-impact-sales/
    - chx 6y ago
      > . I think that a crisis like this is exactly the time to try new and experimental ways of making things available. Yeah a crisis when the stress level of anyone is already much higher is the best time to crank the stress of authors even higher by experimenting with their livelihood without consulting them!
      - indymike 6y ago
        There is a huge difference between a book and code that I write. A book can be read once and the reader benefits. Useful software is usually useful for far more than one use. Free trials and demos are how we sell more software. A book? It's hard to have a free trial. That said, I really have a hard time assailing libraries. Ebooks are sold to libraries at 2-5x the price I can buy the same ebook for as a consumer. Print books are sold at similar prices to consumers and libraries.
        catalogia 6y ago
        > A book? It's hard to have a free trial. Publish one chapter of the book in an anthology, on the web, etc. I've purchased several books after reading one chapter in this manner.
  - badsectoracula 6y ago
    > Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. You mean like shareware?
  - Kaze404 6y ago
    You mean entrepreneurs, not software developers. I can't think of anything about software development makes it inherently commercial.
bzb3 6y ago
Culture wants to be free.
- therealcamino 6y ago
  Writing wants to be uncompensated?
  - manquer 6y ago
    I guess it is more information wants to be free? protecting the price of information is harder when making copies is very cheap.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

by chx 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago

I’m sorry to hear this. I will make an additional donation on your behalf. I can appreciate how authors feel, but they must also realize copyright laws are asymmetrical (tilted heavily towards copyright owners) and in these times, many have no access to their local public library. They are essentially robbed of access to the book materials their tax dollars (which pays an author) have paid for during this time. It’s been a gigantic disappointment to see authors respond negatively to this effort (considering this once-in-a-century event), and I will never buy a book again from one of these authors.

chx 6y ago
I also find it amusing that sofware developers do not recognize any more how we are on the same side in this fight. Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. It's an imperfect comparison but the current situation is not a reason to just discard the law. It might not be the best law, the place to fight that is in Congress and not on the back of authors most of whom are not in the best financial state to say the least.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  You assume authors are losing revenue from this effort. It is likely this revenue would never have been realized regardless of the Archive’s efforts. A piece of content copied doesn’t mean someone would’ve paid for it. As an aside, many SaaS products have given away their product for free due to COVID and widespread forced WFH. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/347840 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/347840
  - therealcamino 6y ago
    "As an aside, many SaaS products have given away their product for free due to COVID and widespread forced WFH." I'm sure a lot of authors would have contributed their work to the effort, if they'd been asked. But they weren't asked. It's difficult to imagine how you'd similarly force SaaS companies to give away their products for free during the pandemic -- lucky for them -- but if you found a way to do it technically, how do you think they'd react?
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Honest question: how do you propose a non profit online library ask every author for written permission, while also considering the legal interests of their publishers?
      - therealcamino 6y ago
        Sounds difficult, but not a justification for breaking copyright laws, or interfering with people's livelihoods without asking.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        gojomo 6y ago
        Any author who notices the Archive's temporary 'National Emergency Library' affecting their 'livelihood' can opt out quite easily.
        therealcamino 6y ago
        The HN consensus is always that only opt-in is acceptable when it comes to online privacy or anything else that affects them personally. Apparently opt-out is fine for everybody else. You put 'livelihood' in scare quotes, but I don't understand what's deserving of mockery. Writers make their living by selling their writing.
- mcherm 6y ago
  > Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. I think that is a fair comparison. As a software developer, I would JUMP at the opportunity to do that. Partly because it would be an opportunity to help sustain the world through this time of crisis at no real cost to myself (perhaps some opportunity cost). And partly because it would serve as free advertising.
  - therealcamino 6y ago
    That's not quite what happened here -- your software is given away whether or not you want to jump on that opportunity, because they don't care what you want. If you happen to notice what's going on, you can ask them to stop. And you don't get any goodwill from giving it away, because it was the Internet Archive and not you that made the gesture. Honestly they would have gotten huge buy-in from authors if they'd bothered to ask. What bothers me more is the intellectual dishonesty of their FAQ's.
- aeturnum 6y ago
  I mean, imagine they did. So a huge group of people get to try your software for free. There's a system to try and cut them off at two weeks but it might fail. This is basically free marketing. All sorts of people who may never have tried your software try it. Nearly all of them don't buy it, but some do. It doesn't cost you any money and you're able to help people in need. There's evidence that, in general, piracy lowers sales, but the specifics are complex and uncertain[1]. Piracy can have positive impacts on the fortunes of the original artist. I think that a crisis like this is exactly the time to try new and experimental ways of making things available. [1] https://marketly.com/does-piracy-impact-sales/ https://marketly.com/does-piracy-impact-sales/
  - chx 6y ago
    > . I think that a crisis like this is exactly the time to try new and experimental ways of making things available. Yeah a crisis when the stress level of anyone is already much higher is the best time to crank the stress of authors even higher by experimenting with their livelihood without consulting them!
    - indymike 6y ago
      There is a huge difference between a book and code that I write. A book can be read once and the reader benefits. Useful software is usually useful for far more than one use. Free trials and demos are how we sell more software. A book? It's hard to have a free trial. That said, I really have a hard time assailing libraries. Ebooks are sold to libraries at 2-5x the price I can buy the same ebook for as a consumer. Print books are sold at similar prices to consumers and libraries.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        > A book? It's hard to have a free trial. Publish one chapter of the book in an anthology, on the web, etc. I've purchased several books after reading one chapter in this manner.
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  > Imagine if we were still selling boxed software and they decided that in light of COVID-19 they just hand it out with a two week limit. You mean like shareware?
- Kaze404 6y ago
  You mean entrepreneurs, not software developers. I can't think of anything about software development makes it inherently commercial.

bzb3 6y ago

Culture wants to be free.

therealcamino 6y ago
Writing wants to be uncompensated?
- manquer 6y ago
  I guess it is more information wants to be free? protecting the price of information is harder when making copies is very cheap.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]