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As an outsider, the weirdest thing to me is that different counties can have their own rules. That different states might have their own rules is understandabl

As an outsider, the weirdest thing to me is that different counties can have their own rules. That different states might have their own rules is understandable, kind-of, but at the county level? It seems like a very haphazard approach to an emergency.

umanwizard 7y ago
Musk's legal argument is just that: that Alameda County has no authority to override California state rules.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  Except it does, according to the governor of California. > California Governor Gavin Newsom said Thursday that state-level guidance allowing manufacturing to resume some production didn’t supersede county-level restrictions. The company had unsucessfully tried to argue that Tesla’s production should be considered critical infrastructure.[1] Musk is talking out his ass and undermining public safety. If this is also how he approaches product design I don't think I ever want to get into a Tesla again. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/9/21253127/elon-musk-lawsuit-alameda-coronavirus-tesla-fremont-lockdown https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/9/21253127/elon-musk-lawsuit...
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    I'd wait until the court decides to say who is talking out of whose ass, Gavin Newsom is known for just that. Gavin Newsom really is Gavin Belson...
grecy 7y ago
I think it really speaks to what we've built with our "modern democracies" all over the world - layer upon layer of bureaucracy, and the same decisions can be made or un-made at every level. A friend just got a job at a local city council working on their climate change action plan. There are ~20 people working on it, all making ~$80k a year. The city has 30k residents. Every single city of this size or larger in the entire country is going to duplicate this effort, and pay these salaries, and maybe even come up with different solutions to the same problem. City A will ban the use of some chemical, and a handful of miles away a different city with different rules will rejoice in the use of the same chemical. It all feels awfully redundant to me.
205guy 7y ago
I think it's pretty natural. The jurisdictions are set up so that similar geographic areas and populations are covered. In the US, this happens to be on the county level in larger states, and at the state level in smaller states. It can also be at the city or town level. In the SF bay, SF itself is a city and county. The other counties have health authorities, but so does the city of Berkeley. All the health officers of the Bay Area counties are working together, so effectively creating a larger jurisdiction. But Los Angeles is 400 miles (600km) away and in a totally different situation, so it makes sense to do things locally in large states such as California. Different levels of jurisdiction allow for flexibility, so for example, the state may declare non-essential businesses closed, but the local health officer can define the list of essential businesses or activities--or issue exemptions. It also allows some level of local control. Smaller less-populated counties in Northern California where the population is more against the quarantine rules, and where frankly there is less need for them, can have less enforcement, or change later if they find they need it. For a different example, look at France, a highly centralized government. The central government makes all health decisions, but they they still divided the country into zones (Paris and the east were hardest hit by the virus). While all areas had restrictions, they were more strict in those regions, and now that they are starting to re-open, each department has a list of criteria. So each department will have different levels of openness, just like counties in the US.
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Population density is fundamental to the problem. A finer-grained approach is probably better than one-size-fits all.

umanwizard 7y ago

Musk's legal argument is just that: that Alameda County has no authority to override California state rules.

AlexandrB 7y ago
Except it does, according to the governor of California. > California Governor Gavin Newsom said Thursday that state-level guidance allowing manufacturing to resume some production didn’t supersede county-level restrictions. The company had unsucessfully tried to argue that Tesla’s production should be considered critical infrastructure.[1] Musk is talking out his ass and undermining public safety. If this is also how he approaches product design I don't think I ever want to get into a Tesla again. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/9/21253127/elon-musk-lawsuit-alameda-coronavirus-tesla-fremont-lockdown https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/9/21253127/elon-musk-lawsuit...
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  I'd wait until the court decides to say who is talking out of whose ass, Gavin Newsom is known for just that. Gavin Newsom really is Gavin Belson...

grecy 7y ago

I think it really speaks to what we've built with our "modern democracies" all over the world - layer upon layer of bureaucracy, and the same decisions can be made or un-made at every level. A friend just got a job at a local city council working on their climate change action plan. There are ~20 people working on it, all making ~$80k a year. The city has 30k residents. Every single city of this size or larger in the entire country is going to duplicate this effort, and pay these salaries, and maybe even come up with different solutions to the same problem. City A will ban the use of some chemical, and a handful of miles away a different city with different rules will rejoice in the use of the same chemical. It all feels awfully redundant to me.

205guy 7y ago

I think it's pretty natural. The jurisdictions are set up so that similar geographic areas and populations are covered. In the US, this happens to be on the county level in larger states, and at the state level in smaller states. It can also be at the city or town level. In the SF bay, SF itself is a city and county. The other counties have health authorities, but so does the city of Berkeley. All the health officers of the Bay Area counties are working together, so effectively creating a larger jurisdiction. But Los Angeles is 400 miles (600km) away and in a totally different situation, so it makes sense to do things locally in large states such as California. Different levels of jurisdiction allow for flexibility, so for example, the state may declare non-essential businesses closed, but the local health officer can define the list of essential businesses or activities--or issue exemptions. It also allows some level of local control. Smaller less-populated counties in Northern California where the population is more against the quarantine rules, and where frankly there is less need for them, can have less enforcement, or change later if they find they need it. For a different example, look at France, a highly centralized government. The central government makes all health decisions, but they they still divided the country into zones (Paris and the east were hardest hit by the virus). While all areas had restrictions, they were more strict in those regions, and now that they are starting to re-open, each department has a list of criteria. So each department will have different levels of openness, just like counties in the US.

mixmastamyk 7y ago

Population density is fundamental to the problem. A finer-grained approach is probably better than one-size-fits all.