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You mean like Alameda County and San Joaquin County which are adjacent to each other and which have different rules in place? Arbitrary line on the map.

by babesh 6y ago

danans 6y ago
> Arbitrary line on the map. Not arbitrary at all. The eastern ridge of the coastal mountain ranges runs along the border, and the border region is far more sparsely populated than the borders between the more urban counties to the west. The closest city to the border, Livermore, has far more commuting traffic in normal times to the Bay Area counties than to San Joaquin county. What is arbitrary is the border between Alameda and Santa Clara counties, which coincidentally runs right by the Tesla factory.
- babesh 6y ago
  Arbitrary in terms of flow of people. Many, many people commute from San Joaquin County to Alameda County and beyond. Many goods and services flow between the counties. There are many warehouses located in the flats right over the hills in San Joaquin County. This is because of lower cost.
  - danans 6y ago
    > Many goods and services flow between the counties. This virus travels primarily on humans, not goods. The vast majority of human travel is between Alameda and other Bay Area counties, not between Alameda and San Joaquin. Just because most of the milk, produce, and nuts, and packaged goods come from that direction doesn't mean that it makes sense for Alameda county to be more tightly coordinated in public health policy with San Joaquin county than its Bay Area neighbors.
    - babesh 6y ago
      Provide some facts instead of hearsay. Here are some: - Did you know that Tesla has a shuttle between San Joaquin valley and the Tesla factory? Did you know that Tesla has factories in the San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about Tracy being a massive bedroom community into Alameda County and beyond? Those people are providing services for Alameda County and beyond. Do you really think that all your service workers can afford to live in the 'core' Bay Area? I personally knew someone with a family in Tracy who worked in the South Bay and sometimes stayed over at his mother in Dublin because the commute was so bad. He laid carpets. Go ask your Uber or Lyft driver where they live. Multiple have told me Sacramento. Go ask a car salesman/saleswoman where they live. I asked. Tracy. Go ask cancer patients from the Sacramento area where they get treatment. Think Stanford. - Where do you think those workers at your weekly farmer's market live? Most of them come from San Joaquin valley. Look closely at where they say their farms are. Guess. - Did you know that there are San Francisco city employees that commute daily from San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about the massive traffic jam that is I-580 in the mornings? It used to get crowded by 5:30 am from the masses of people commuting in from San Joaquin valley. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Bay-Area-s-worst-traffic-2706604.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Ba... BTW, the article is from 2005. It's much worse than that. Did you know about the ACE station in Tracy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express Do you know about the Amtrak train from Sacramento? I had two coworkers who took that daily into Contra Costa County. They lived in Roseville. Look up where that is located. Ever wonder where multi-generational Bay Area families live? Do you really think that it is magically limited to the 'core' Bay Area? Think San Joaquin valley. I've got family there and I know several other 'core' Bay Area families who come from there and still have family there. The entire western side of San Joaquin County is a de facto bedroom community for the 'core' Bay Area. Amazingly it even stretches into the Sacramento/Stockton area.
      - danans 6y ago
        Yes to all of your "Did you knows". I also have family in the central valley. If your point is that mega commutes are inversely correlated with income, I agree, but not sure what that has to do with the public health policy coordination by counties during the pandemic. The epicenter of every major outbreak of this disease is in dense urban areas like the Bay Area, so Alameda county is right to coordinate primarily with neighboring high density counties.
        babesh 6y ago
        It invalidates your point. The whole area is deeply interconnected. You try to nitpick half a sentence and take it out of context. You know nothing.
        danans 6y ago
        > It invalidates your point. The whole area is deeply interconnected. I agree that they are interconnected, but the places with higher population and population density (the 7 Bay Area counties) are even more interconnected on a human basis. The idea that Bay Area counties should compromise their lockdowns for San Joaquin county commuters makes no sense. Their policies should be driven by their shared public health priorities. > You know nothing. Vitriol is an ineffective argumentative technique.
        babesh 6y ago
        I stand by the statement. You again pick and choose parts of statements. https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+things+out+of+context https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+things+out+of+cont... Do you really think there is less movement of people between San Joaquin County and these counties versus Marin County and these counties? Marin County is one of this group. Do you really think that Marin County is a densely populated urban area? Marin County has ~250K people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County%2C_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County%2C_California San Joaquin County has probably >700K people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_County%2C_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_County%2C_Californ... Furthermore, San Joaquin County has a higher population density than Marin County. I-580 has ~300K per day in the Tri-Valley area connecting San Joaquin and Alameda counties. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/A-year-later-I-580-pay-to-use-lanes-are-a-11007105.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/A-year-later-I-580-pa... The Golden Gate Bridge connecting Marin County to San Francisco County has ~112K a day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Usage_and_tourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Usage_and_t... The Richmond San Rafael Bridge connecting Marin County to Contra Costa County has ~80K a day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond–San_Rafael_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond–San_Rafael_Bridge 300 >> (112 + 80). And don't give me BS about other means of transportation. Those ferries from Marin carry in the low thousands a day. The trains and buses running from San Joaquin Valley in carry far more. It will skew even further on the side of San Joaquin County. Your argument is repeatedly repudiated by the facts, your logic is weak, you try to score points on irrelevancies, and yet you continue to try to argue. e.g. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

You mean like Alameda County and San Joaquin County which are adjacent to each other and which have different rules in place? Arbitrary line on the map.

by babesh 6y ago

You mean like Alameda County and San Joaquin County which are adjacent to each other and which have different rules in place? Arbitrary line on the map.

danans 6y ago

> Arbitrary line on the map. Not arbitrary at all. The eastern ridge of the coastal mountain ranges runs along the border, and the border region is far more sparsely populated than the borders between the more urban counties to the west. The closest city to the border, Livermore, has far more commuting traffic in normal times to the Bay Area counties than to San Joaquin county. What is arbitrary is the border between Alameda and Santa Clara counties, which coincidentally runs right by the Tesla factory.

babesh 6y ago
Arbitrary in terms of flow of people. Many, many people commute from San Joaquin County to Alameda County and beyond. Many goods and services flow between the counties. There are many warehouses located in the flats right over the hills in San Joaquin County. This is because of lower cost.
- danans 6y ago
  > Many goods and services flow between the counties. This virus travels primarily on humans, not goods. The vast majority of human travel is between Alameda and other Bay Area counties, not between Alameda and San Joaquin. Just because most of the milk, produce, and nuts, and packaged goods come from that direction doesn't mean that it makes sense for Alameda county to be more tightly coordinated in public health policy with San Joaquin county than its Bay Area neighbors.
  - babesh 6y ago
    Provide some facts instead of hearsay. Here are some: - Did you know that Tesla has a shuttle between San Joaquin valley and the Tesla factory? Did you know that Tesla has factories in the San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about Tracy being a massive bedroom community into Alameda County and beyond? Those people are providing services for Alameda County and beyond. Do you really think that all your service workers can afford to live in the 'core' Bay Area? I personally knew someone with a family in Tracy who worked in the South Bay and sometimes stayed over at his mother in Dublin because the commute was so bad. He laid carpets. Go ask your Uber or Lyft driver where they live. Multiple have told me Sacramento. Go ask a car salesman/saleswoman where they live. I asked. Tracy. Go ask cancer patients from the Sacramento area where they get treatment. Think Stanford. - Where do you think those workers at your weekly farmer's market live? Most of them come from San Joaquin valley. Look closely at where they say their farms are. Guess. - Did you know that there are San Francisco city employees that commute daily from San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about the massive traffic jam that is I-580 in the mornings? It used to get crowded by 5:30 am from the masses of people commuting in from San Joaquin valley. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Bay-Area-s-worst-traffic-2706604.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Ba... BTW, the article is from 2005. It's much worse than that. Did you know about the ACE station in Tracy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express Do you know about the Amtrak train from Sacramento? I had two coworkers who took that daily into Contra Costa County. They lived in Roseville. Look up where that is located. Ever wonder where multi-generational Bay Area families live? Do you really think that it is magically limited to the 'core' Bay Area? Think San Joaquin valley. I've got family there and I know several other 'core' Bay Area families who come from there and still have family there. The entire western side of San Joaquin County is a de facto bedroom community for the 'core' Bay Area. Amazingly it even stretches into the Sacramento/Stockton area.
    - danans 6y ago
      Yes to all of your "Did you knows". I also have family in the central valley. If your point is that mega commutes are inversely correlated with income, I agree, but not sure what that has to do with the public health policy coordination by counties during the pandemic. The epicenter of every major outbreak of this disease is in dense urban areas like the Bay Area, so Alameda county is right to coordinate primarily with neighboring high density counties.
      - babesh 6y ago
        It invalidates your point. The whole area is deeply interconnected. You try to nitpick half a sentence and take it out of context. You know nothing.
        danans 6y ago
        > It invalidates your point. The whole area is deeply interconnected. I agree that they are interconnected, but the places with higher population and population density (the 7 Bay Area counties) are even more interconnected on a human basis. The idea that Bay Area counties should compromise their lockdowns for San Joaquin county commuters makes no sense. Their policies should be driven by their shared public health priorities. > You know nothing. Vitriol is an ineffective argumentative technique.
        babesh 6y ago
        I stand by the statement. You again pick and choose parts of statements. https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+things+out+of+context https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+things+out+of+cont... Do you really think there is less movement of people between San Joaquin County and these counties versus Marin County and these counties? Marin County is one of this group. Do you really think that Marin County is a densely populated urban area? Marin County has ~250K people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County%2C_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County%2C_California San Joaquin County has probably >700K people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_County%2C_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_County%2C_Californ... Furthermore, San Joaquin County has a higher population density than Marin County. I-580 has ~300K per day in the Tri-Valley area connecting San Joaquin and Alameda counties. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/A-year-later-I-580-pay-to-use-lanes-are-a-11007105.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/A-year-later-I-580-pa... The Golden Gate Bridge connecting Marin County to San Francisco County has ~112K a day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Usage_and_tourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Usage_and_t... The Richmond San Rafael Bridge connecting Marin County to Contra Costa County has ~80K a day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond–San_Rafael_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond–San_Rafael_Bridge 300 >> (112 + 80). And don't give me BS about other means of transportation. Those ferries from Marin carry in the low thousands a day. The trains and buses running from San Joaquin Valley in carry far more. It will skew even further on the side of San Joaquin County. Your argument is repeatedly repudiated by the facts, your logic is weak, you try to score points on irrelevancies, and yet you continue to try to argue. e.g. You know nothing, Jon Snow.