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Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? The issue I personally have is that his personal

by dr_ 6y ago

Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? The issue I personally have is that his personal comments, from twitter and from interview (Rogan) suggests that he is questioning how serious Covid is in general and that people have the right to do live how they choose with little regard for how that may affect those around them. He claims that patients with covid like symptoms, but without an official diagnosis, are being counted as covid patients, implying that they shouldn’t be (not true - most are designated under investigation until results are available or, in the early days, there simply weren’t enough tests available). Or that if one has covid, but also has another medical condition that was the cause of death, it should not be attributed to covid (again wrong, in many cases chronic conditions are controlled, until the virus wrecks havoc on the body). Why would he be doing this? Because by questioning the seriousness of it, a push can be made to open the economy at large, which in many places and environments is still not safe. After all, what is the point of manufacturing Tesla’s if there aren’t enough people there to buy them?

MiroF 6y ago
> Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? I think it more has to do with the necessity of the service versus the risk undertaken. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a grocery store worker is at less risk than a Tesla factory worker - the suggestion is that perhaps people need the grocery store more than they need a new Model 3.
- insickness 6y ago
  There's construction going on next door to my apartment building in Brooklyn, an area code where 50%+ are testing positive for covid antibodies. There's no reason that would be safer than an auto plant, if anything it is less so.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - otterley 6y ago
    Hence the "necessity" component that is weighed against it. Building additional housing, especially in expensive cities such as NYC, is considered extremely necessary by society.
    - neilmock 6y ago
      Some amazing question begging happening here. Value is subjective.
      - MiroF 6y ago
        Not what it means to beg the question.
        tasty_freeze 6y ago
        Please explain your understanding. My understanding is to assume the premise you are trying to prove in the act of proving it. The one being accused of begging the question said construction is a necessary activity because society says it is necessary. But that doesn't mean it is necessary, which is what the law would seem to require.
        MiroF 6y ago
        The conclusion was that just because being a Tesla worker and being a construction worker are roughly equally safe doesn't mean that both automatically should re-open. Construction being more valuable for society than a Model 3 was part of the premise. You took them to mean "Construction is more valuable for society -> Construction is more valuable for society" but that was not the claim.
  - misiti3780 6y ago
    i live in brooklyn too, and there is a construction site next door with lots of workers. it's ridiculous that tesla cant open up
    - manquer 6y ago
      It is not like other business like construction in Alameda county has been allowed to open and Tesla is being asked to keep closed. While NY and NJ have stepped up their response they are not exactly the model other states should be copying .
  - kerkeslager 6y ago
    I think it more has to do with the necessity of the service versus the risk undertaken.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    Did you read my comment?
    - remontoire 6y ago
      New construction is more needed?
      - MiroF 6y ago
        Housing vs model 3s?
conanbatt 6y ago
What I don't get is why some people believe the government is the one that decide what is the appropriate individual response to the pandemic. It's paradoxical to believe the government knows better than its voters.
- sanderjd 6y ago
  It sounds like you think our system of government is a democracy. It's not, it's a republic. Voters do not make our governance decisions, they vest the power to make those decisions in leaders that they elect. So no, that is not paradoxical, it is a feature of our system of government, and a very important one in my view.
  - conanbatt 6y ago
    A republic is not a system by the which the voter is losing power but one that keeps the government in check as well as the will of the majority against a minority. It is not a system or an excuse to do things against the voters individual interest.
    - sanderjd 6y ago
      In the US it is, literally, a system where voters have direct power only in elections every few years, and only the indirect power of influence in the interim. Voters do not run the government, in a very real way. They merely elect the people who do. Those people are then free to use their own judgement, hopefully, but not inevitably, informed by their constituents' wishes. You can debate whether this is better than direct democracy (I think it is), but it is just the case that this is how our system works and how it was designed to work.
      - conanbatt 6y ago
        I think you are confusing the implementation with the spirit. If the government does not do what they were voted for they are simply an illegitimate government and subject to be disobeyed. The fact that no administration was voted on their public health policy means almost anything they do is against their voter's interest, so they should do as little as possible.
mkolodny 6y ago
> Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? Who says Amazon can run warehouses safely? "There are COVID-19 cases in at least 129 Amazon fulfillment centers, according to an internal tally maintained by warehouse workers in a private Facebook group. Other estimates put the number closer to 150 warehouses." [0] [0] https://www.geekwire.com/2020/amazon-engineers-react-colleagues-resignation-companys-covid-19-response-sparks-debate/ https://www.geekwire.com/2020/amazon-engineers-react-colleag...
Rapzid 6y ago
Why would he have tweeted on March 19th the trend was toward zero new cases in the USA by end of April? The day before NY issued stay-at-home orders? I'm pretty sure he would have had a hard time trading his entire estate for credible epidemiologist to back him on that. I think he is being incredibly ignorant and primed to buy into bogus narratives that support his agenda. Or he is willfully trying to manipulate public sentiment with bogus narratives. Either way, his "style" of communicating with the "masses" seems more and more like a certain someone..
mr_isomies 6y ago
IMO He's not questioning how serious covid is, he's just blind to how serious it is because he's part of a strata that is not really affected by it. Possibly, nothing has changed in his day to day life compared to before, so the situation must not be that different, right?

by dr_ 6y ago

MiroF 6y ago

> Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? I think it more has to do with the necessity of the service versus the risk undertaken. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a grocery store worker is at less risk than a Tesla factory worker - the suggestion is that perhaps people need the grocery store more than they need a new Model 3.

insickness 6y ago
There's construction going on next door to my apartment building in Brooklyn, an area code where 50%+ are testing positive for covid antibodies. There's no reason that would be safer than an auto plant, if anything it is less so.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- otterley 6y ago
  Hence the "necessity" component that is weighed against it. Building additional housing, especially in expensive cities such as NYC, is considered extremely necessary by society.
  - neilmock 6y ago
    Some amazing question begging happening here. Value is subjective.
    - MiroF 6y ago
      Not what it means to beg the question.
      - tasty_freeze 6y ago
        Please explain your understanding. My understanding is to assume the premise you are trying to prove in the act of proving it. The one being accused of begging the question said construction is a necessary activity because society says it is necessary. But that doesn't mean it is necessary, which is what the law would seem to require.
        MiroF 6y ago
        The conclusion was that just because being a Tesla worker and being a construction worker are roughly equally safe doesn't mean that both automatically should re-open. Construction being more valuable for society than a Model 3 was part of the premise. You took them to mean "Construction is more valuable for society -> Construction is more valuable for society" but that was not the claim.
- misiti3780 6y ago
  i live in brooklyn too, and there is a construction site next door with lots of workers. it's ridiculous that tesla cant open up
  - manquer 6y ago
    It is not like other business like construction in Alameda county has been allowed to open and Tesla is being asked to keep closed. While NY and NJ have stepped up their response they are not exactly the model other states should be copying .
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  I think it more has to do with the necessity of the service versus the risk undertaken.
- MiroF 6y ago
  Did you read my comment?
  - remontoire 6y ago
    New construction is more needed?
    - MiroF 6y ago
      Housing vs model 3s?

conanbatt 6y ago

What I don't get is why some people believe the government is the one that decide what is the appropriate individual response to the pandemic. It's paradoxical to believe the government knows better than its voters.

sanderjd 6y ago
It sounds like you think our system of government is a democracy. It's not, it's a republic. Voters do not make our governance decisions, they vest the power to make those decisions in leaders that they elect. So no, that is not paradoxical, it is a feature of our system of government, and a very important one in my view.
- conanbatt 6y ago
  A republic is not a system by the which the voter is losing power but one that keeps the government in check as well as the will of the majority against a minority. It is not a system or an excuse to do things against the voters individual interest.
  - sanderjd 6y ago
    In the US it is, literally, a system where voters have direct power only in elections every few years, and only the indirect power of influence in the interim. Voters do not run the government, in a very real way. They merely elect the people who do. Those people are then free to use their own judgement, hopefully, but not inevitably, informed by their constituents' wishes. You can debate whether this is better than direct democracy (I think it is), but it is just the case that this is how our system works and how it was designed to work.
    - conanbatt 6y ago
      I think you are confusing the implementation with the spirit. If the government does not do what they were voted for they are simply an illegitimate government and subject to be disobeyed. The fact that no administration was voted on their public health policy means almost anything they do is against their voter's interest, so they should do as little as possible.

mkolodny 6y ago

> Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars? Who says Amazon can run warehouses safely? "There are COVID-19 cases in at least 129 Amazon fulfillment centers, according to an internal tally maintained by warehouse workers in a private Facebook group. Other estimates put the number closer to 150 warehouses." [0] [0] https://www.geekwire.com/2020/amazon-engineers-react-colleagues-resignation-companys-covid-19-response-sparks-debate/ https://www.geekwire.com/2020/amazon-engineers-react-colleag...

Rapzid 6y ago

Why would he have tweeted on March 19th the trend was toward zero new cases in the USA by end of April? The day before NY issued stay-at-home orders? I'm pretty sure he would have had a hard time trading his entire estate for credible epidemiologist to back him on that. I think he is being incredibly ignorant and primed to buy into bogus narratives that support his agenda. Or he is willfully trying to manipulate public sentiment with bogus narratives. Either way, his "style" of communicating with the "masses" seems more and more like a certain someone..

mr_isomies 6y ago

IMO He's not questioning how serious covid is, he's just blind to how serious it is because he's part of a strata that is not really affected by it. Possibly, nothing has changed in his day to day life compared to before, so the situation must not be that different, right?