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What percentage of people don't understand that (serious question)? I'm in nyc so my perspective is likely a little skewed, but I can't see anyone who can avoi

What percentage of people don't understand that (serious question)? I'm in nyc so my perspective is likely a little skewed, but I can't see anyone who can avoid doing so rushing back into restaurants, subways, or really any avoidable indoor or crowded activity. :( But, yeah, I see the protesters desperately wanting to reopen everything in the midwest, so I guess a lot of people must think the problem is politics not biology and physics?

umanwizard 6y ago
Well, I live in NYC too and will be back in restaurants and bars the day they open. I’m not really worried about covid, but even if I were, I think I’ll almost certainly get it eventually regardless of whether I go out or not, so there’s no point trying to avoid it. So, now you know of at least one person. By the way: “how much health risk are we willing to accept to avoid a given amount of economic damage” is one of the most clearly political questions I can imagine. The effects of the virus have to do with biology; weighing multiple different tradeoffs is politics.
- josephorjoe 6y ago
  It’s politics when you are deciding what groups of people should do. When you make personal decisions it is about biology. I know many people feel like you do. And it may be inevitable that most of us get exposed. But I’m inclined to postpone my exposure for as long as possible, preferably not until the disease is better understood and there are better treatments available. I do appreciate that I’m lucky enough to have the financial flexibility to make that decision and not everyone has that luxury. I miss the restaurants and bars and museums and even the subways too. I’m just not going to be rushing into them after what we’ve witnessed in this city the last ten weeks.
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    > It’s politics when you are deciding what groups of people should do. Yes, which is what the protests are about: whether large groups of people should be allowed to do certain things. Nobody is protesting against your right to stay inside if you want to. > I’m just not going to be rushing into them after what we’ve witnessed in this city the last ten weeks. That’s fine. But you claimed you couldn’t imagine anyone behaving differently, when (clearly IMO) quite a lot of people will.
    - josephorjoe 6y ago
      > That’s fine. But you claimed you couldn’t imagine anyone behaving differently, when (clearly IMO) quite a lot of people will. That's a fair criticism. I should have said "anyone I know" as that was where my thoughts were. Most of the people I know are over 40 with kids, so that group tends to be a bit more cautious than some. Although I was surprised by how many (over 50%) of my <35 year old co-workers just got out of the city by mid-march.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- greglindahl 6y ago
  A guy walked onto an elevator with me yesterday. Freedom!!! He wasn't just making a choice for himself, he was making a choice for me.
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    You also had the choice to get off the elevator when he got on.
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    I have no idea how this is related to my comment.
    - greglindahl 6y ago
      He wasn't worried about covid.
  - frockington1 6y ago
    Then get out of the elevator and take the the stairs
- raz32dust 6y ago
  It is not so simple. Some examples: If there is no lockdown, companies are not forced to have employees WFH. So while you may be OK with getting the virus, I might not be, but I am no longer free to not go out since I might lose my job over that. Sure, you could say that it is my choice to give up a job that requires me to work. Then it's a question of values and politics, and in my value system, that is unfair to me and not a good decision. Second, let's say that the lockdown is lifted and hospitals are running out of capacity. Doctors and nurses are having to leave people to die because there are no beds or ICUs. Let's say the people dying are all above 50 yrs of age, but there is clear evidence that without lockdown, 2000 people die everyday and with lockdown, 200 people die everyday. Is your freedom worth sacrificing 1800 people every day?
  - frockington1 6y ago
    Yes. I am against the government forcibly removing people from their jobs and doing nothing to get them the unemployment they have been paying into. This fiasco has made me even more resolute in never trusting the government (local, state, and federal) to do anything remotely efficient
marcinzm 6y ago
>I'm in nyc so my perspective is likely a little skewed, but I can't see anyone who can avoid doing so rushing back into restaurants, subways, or really any avoidable indoor or crowded activity. :( I've heard multiple people in their 30s in NYC say they'd prefer to just get infected now so it's over with since it's inevitable. I also doubt the people packing every park a couple weeks back when the weather got nice would care too much. If anything after being cramped in small apartments people in NYC will be more likely to go out than in the mid west where they have space at home.
formercoder 6y ago
I’m in nyc and I’m ready to do that. I will do my part to protect the community by wearing a mask etc, but less than 500 people age 25-34 have died of this in the US. It approaches crossing the street risk.
raz32dust 6y ago
Politics is definitely important here, because at the end of the day it is a question of values. If the majority of the nation wants to keep business open even at the cost of hundreds or thousands of lives every day, that is a question of politics. I can only say that I hope they have all the right, accurate information when making this judgement.

umanwizard 6y ago

Well, I live in NYC too and will be back in restaurants and bars the day they open. I’m not really worried about covid, but even if I were, I think I’ll almost certainly get it eventually regardless of whether I go out or not, so there’s no point trying to avoid it. So, now you know of at least one person. By the way: “how much health risk are we willing to accept to avoid a given amount of economic damage” is one of the most clearly political questions I can imagine. The effects of the virus have to do with biology; weighing multiple different tradeoffs is politics.

josephorjoe 6y ago
It’s politics when you are deciding what groups of people should do. When you make personal decisions it is about biology. I know many people feel like you do. And it may be inevitable that most of us get exposed. But I’m inclined to postpone my exposure for as long as possible, preferably not until the disease is better understood and there are better treatments available. I do appreciate that I’m lucky enough to have the financial flexibility to make that decision and not everyone has that luxury. I miss the restaurants and bars and museums and even the subways too. I’m just not going to be rushing into them after what we’ve witnessed in this city the last ten weeks.
- umanwizard 6y ago
  > It’s politics when you are deciding what groups of people should do. Yes, which is what the protests are about: whether large groups of people should be allowed to do certain things. Nobody is protesting against your right to stay inside if you want to. > I’m just not going to be rushing into them after what we’ve witnessed in this city the last ten weeks. That’s fine. But you claimed you couldn’t imagine anyone behaving differently, when (clearly IMO) quite a lot of people will.
  - josephorjoe 6y ago
    > That’s fine. But you claimed you couldn’t imagine anyone behaving differently, when (clearly IMO) quite a lot of people will. That's a fair criticism. I should have said "anyone I know" as that was where my thoughts were. Most of the people I know are over 40 with kids, so that group tends to be a bit more cautious than some. Although I was surprised by how many (over 50%) of my <35 year old co-workers just got out of the city by mid-march.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
greglindahl 6y ago
A guy walked onto an elevator with me yesterday. Freedom!!! He wasn't just making a choice for himself, he was making a choice for me.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  You also had the choice to get off the elevator when he got on.
- umanwizard 6y ago
  I have no idea how this is related to my comment.
  - greglindahl 6y ago
    He wasn't worried about covid.
- frockington1 6y ago
  Then get out of the elevator and take the the stairs
raz32dust 6y ago
It is not so simple. Some examples: If there is no lockdown, companies are not forced to have employees WFH. So while you may be OK with getting the virus, I might not be, but I am no longer free to not go out since I might lose my job over that. Sure, you could say that it is my choice to give up a job that requires me to work. Then it's a question of values and politics, and in my value system, that is unfair to me and not a good decision. Second, let's say that the lockdown is lifted and hospitals are running out of capacity. Doctors and nurses are having to leave people to die because there are no beds or ICUs. Let's say the people dying are all above 50 yrs of age, but there is clear evidence that without lockdown, 2000 people die everyday and with lockdown, 200 people die everyday. Is your freedom worth sacrificing 1800 people every day?
- frockington1 6y ago
  Yes. I am against the government forcibly removing people from their jobs and doing nothing to get them the unemployment they have been paying into. This fiasco has made me even more resolute in never trusting the government (local, state, and federal) to do anything remotely efficient

marcinzm 6y ago

>I'm in nyc so my perspective is likely a little skewed, but I can't see anyone who can avoid doing so rushing back into restaurants, subways, or really any avoidable indoor or crowded activity. :( I've heard multiple people in their 30s in NYC say they'd prefer to just get infected now so it's over with since it's inevitable. I also doubt the people packing every park a couple weeks back when the weather got nice would care too much. If anything after being cramped in small apartments people in NYC will be more likely to go out than in the mid west where they have space at home.

formercoder 6y ago

I’m in nyc and I’m ready to do that. I will do my part to protect the community by wearing a mask etc, but less than 500 people age 25-34 have died of this in the US. It approaches crossing the street risk.

raz32dust 6y ago

Politics is definitely important here, because at the end of the day it is a question of values. If the majority of the nation wants to keep business open even at the cost of hundreds or thousands of lives every day, that is a question of politics. I can only say that I hope they have all the right, accurate information when making this judgement.