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> The Bay Area health officials have formed a cabal to move the entire region in concert The word "cabal" generally has a very sinister undertone. I can't tell

> The Bay Area health officials have formed a cabal to move the entire region in concert The word "cabal" generally has a very sinister undertone. I can't tell if it was intentional here. "Coordination between public health officials in adjacent locales" is generally not something that merits painting in sinister tones.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
babesh 6y ago
Definitely not coordination. Came together on their own. Decide what to do together. Enforce each other's powers by acting in concert.
- lukewrites 6y ago
  That sounds like a coalition, maybe? Cabals tend towards secrecy.
  - babesh 6y ago
    I think the name you give it mostly depends on whether you are inside or outside the group or stand to gain or lose from it. So one person calls the same exact thing a cabal and the other calls it a coalition. It’s dependent on the biases of the observer.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  People live in one County and work in another. They may even transit through another. Public health, like viruses, is about more than arbitrary lines on a map. > Enforce each other's powers by acting in concert. Do you similarly complain that neighboring police departments have agreements in place to do the same thing? Fire/EMS mutual aid? Perhaps we can go back to the days of the Dukes of Hazzard, and the Sheriff has to stop because they got to the County Line.
  - babesh 6y ago
    You mean like Alameda County and San Joaquin County which are adjacent to each other and which have different rules in place? Arbitrary line on the map.
    - danans 6y ago
      > Arbitrary line on the map. Not arbitrary at all. The eastern ridge of the coastal mountain ranges runs along the border, and the border region is far more sparsely populated than the borders between the more urban counties to the west. The closest city to the border, Livermore, has far more commuting traffic in normal times to the Bay Area counties than to San Joaquin county. What is arbitrary is the border between Alameda and Santa Clara counties, which coincidentally runs right by the Tesla factory.
      - babesh 6y ago
        Arbitrary in terms of flow of people. Many, many people commute from San Joaquin County to Alameda County and beyond. Many goods and services flow between the counties. There are many warehouses located in the flats right over the hills in San Joaquin County. This is because of lower cost.
        danans 6y ago
        > Many goods and services flow between the counties. This virus travels primarily on humans, not goods. The vast majority of human travel is between Alameda and other Bay Area counties, not between Alameda and San Joaquin. Just because most of the milk, produce, and nuts, and packaged goods come from that direction doesn't mean that it makes sense for Alameda county to be more tightly coordinated in public health policy with San Joaquin county than its Bay Area neighbors.
        babesh 6y ago
        Provide some facts instead of hearsay. Here are some: - Did you know that Tesla has a shuttle between San Joaquin valley and the Tesla factory? Did you know that Tesla has factories in the San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about Tracy being a massive bedroom community into Alameda County and beyond? Those people are providing services for Alameda County and beyond. Do you really think that all your service workers can afford to live in the 'core' Bay Area? I personally knew someone with a family in Tracy who worked in the South Bay and sometimes stayed over at his mother in Dublin because the commute was so bad. He laid carpets. Go ask your Uber or Lyft driver where they live. Multiple have told me Sacramento. Go ask a car salesman/saleswoman where they live. I asked. Tracy. Go ask cancer patients from the Sacramento area where they get treatment. Think Stanford. - Where do you think those workers at your weekly farmer's market live? Most of them come from San Joaquin valley. Look closely at where they say their farms are. Guess. - Did you know that there are San Francisco city employees that commute daily from San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about the massive traffic jam that is I-580 in the mornings? It used to get crowded by 5:30 am from the masses of people commuting in from San Joaquin valley. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Bay-Area-s-worst-traffic-2706604.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Ba... BTW, the article is from 2005. It's much worse than that. Did you know about the ACE station in Tracy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express Do you know about the Amtrak train from Sacramento? I had two coworkers who took that daily into Contra Costa County. They lived in Roseville. Look up where that is located. Ever wonder where multi-generational Bay Area families live? Do you really think that it is magically limited to the 'core' Bay Area? Think San Joaquin valley. I've got family there and I know several other 'core' Bay Area families who come from there and still have family there. The entire western side of San Joaquin County is a de facto bedroom community for the 'core' Bay Area. Amazingly it even stretches into the Sacramento/Stockton area.
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  That sounds like coordination to me...
  - babesh 6y ago
    It also sounds like cabal, cartel, union, ring, tribe, oligopoly, etc... You can't join. You aren't invited. You have no say.
- triceratops 6y ago
  Holy shit. My parents were a cabal when I was a kid.
  - babesh 6y ago
    You mean they weren't coordinating?
    - triceratops 6y ago
      C'mon it's insulting to cabals to say they don't coordinate. How can they cabalize effectively without that?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

babesh 6y ago

Definitely not coordination. Came together on their own. Decide what to do together. Enforce each other's powers by acting in concert.

lukewrites 6y ago
That sounds like a coalition, maybe? Cabals tend towards secrecy.
- babesh 6y ago
  I think the name you give it mostly depends on whether you are inside or outside the group or stand to gain or lose from it. So one person calls the same exact thing a cabal and the other calls it a coalition. It’s dependent on the biases of the observer.
FireBeyond 6y ago
People live in one County and work in another. They may even transit through another. Public health, like viruses, is about more than arbitrary lines on a map. > Enforce each other's powers by acting in concert. Do you similarly complain that neighboring police departments have agreements in place to do the same thing? Fire/EMS mutual aid? Perhaps we can go back to the days of the Dukes of Hazzard, and the Sheriff has to stop because they got to the County Line.
- babesh 6y ago
  You mean like Alameda County and San Joaquin County which are adjacent to each other and which have different rules in place? Arbitrary line on the map.
  - danans 6y ago
    > Arbitrary line on the map. Not arbitrary at all. The eastern ridge of the coastal mountain ranges runs along the border, and the border region is far more sparsely populated than the borders between the more urban counties to the west. The closest city to the border, Livermore, has far more commuting traffic in normal times to the Bay Area counties than to San Joaquin county. What is arbitrary is the border between Alameda and Santa Clara counties, which coincidentally runs right by the Tesla factory.
    - babesh 6y ago
      Arbitrary in terms of flow of people. Many, many people commute from San Joaquin County to Alameda County and beyond. Many goods and services flow between the counties. There are many warehouses located in the flats right over the hills in San Joaquin County. This is because of lower cost.
      - danans 6y ago
        > Many goods and services flow between the counties. This virus travels primarily on humans, not goods. The vast majority of human travel is between Alameda and other Bay Area counties, not between Alameda and San Joaquin. Just because most of the milk, produce, and nuts, and packaged goods come from that direction doesn't mean that it makes sense for Alameda county to be more tightly coordinated in public health policy with San Joaquin county than its Bay Area neighbors.
        babesh 6y ago
        Provide some facts instead of hearsay. Here are some: - Did you know that Tesla has a shuttle between San Joaquin valley and the Tesla factory? Did you know that Tesla has factories in the San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about Tracy being a massive bedroom community into Alameda County and beyond? Those people are providing services for Alameda County and beyond. Do you really think that all your service workers can afford to live in the 'core' Bay Area? I personally knew someone with a family in Tracy who worked in the South Bay and sometimes stayed over at his mother in Dublin because the commute was so bad. He laid carpets. Go ask your Uber or Lyft driver where they live. Multiple have told me Sacramento. Go ask a car salesman/saleswoman where they live. I asked. Tracy. Go ask cancer patients from the Sacramento area where they get treatment. Think Stanford. - Where do you think those workers at your weekly farmer's market live? Most of them come from San Joaquin valley. Look closely at where they say their farms are. Guess. - Did you know that there are San Francisco city employees that commute daily from San Joaquin valley? - Did you know about the massive traffic jam that is I-580 in the mornings? It used to get crowded by 5:30 am from the masses of people commuting in from San Joaquin valley. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Bay-Area-s-worst-traffic-2706604.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/I-580-home-to-3-of-Ba... BTW, the article is from 2005. It's much worse than that. Did you know about the ACE station in Tracy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Corridor_Express Do you know about the Amtrak train from Sacramento? I had two coworkers who took that daily into Contra Costa County. They lived in Roseville. Look up where that is located. Ever wonder where multi-generational Bay Area families live? Do you really think that it is magically limited to the 'core' Bay Area? Think San Joaquin valley. I've got family there and I know several other 'core' Bay Area families who come from there and still have family there. The entire western side of San Joaquin County is a de facto bedroom community for the 'core' Bay Area. Amazingly it even stretches into the Sacramento/Stockton area.
M2Ys4U 6y ago
That sounds like coordination to me...
- babesh 6y ago
  It also sounds like cabal, cartel, union, ring, tribe, oligopoly, etc... You can't join. You aren't invited. You have no say.
triceratops 6y ago
Holy shit. My parents were a cabal when I was a kid.
- babesh 6y ago
  You mean they weren't coordinating?
  - triceratops 6y ago
    C'mon it's insulting to cabals to say they don't coordinate. How can they cabalize effectively without that?