5 ms·

No it's not. That's a common misconception, but the studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime. This is because: 1. Crimin

by toomim 6y ago

No it's not. That's a common misconception, but the studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime. This is because: 1. Criminals don't want their activities to be tracked on a public ledger. Cash is anonymous. Bitcoin is not. 2. Criminals already have money laundering systems in-place, and relationships with corrupt bankers. 3. Cash is accepted at more places. So it's more useful to have. We're talking trillions of dollars in USD crime here. It's not even close.

microtherion 6y ago
> studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime That's a massively higher share for cryptocurrencies than in legitimate transactions, isn't it?
- bb88 6y ago
  I was curious about that too. The US Treasury thinks that $300bn is laundered every year. Then ciphertrace thinks $2.5bn is laundered through crypto currencies. While BTC is tracked between wallets and that's easily measured, it's unclear how to measure wallets being transferred between people.
bb88 6y ago
> Cash is anonymous. Bitcoin is not. There's a non zero chance that your criminal extortion scheme won't end up with bill serial numbers tracked by federal authorities. Hence that's probably why 97% of ransomware uses BTC.
- mirimir 6y ago
  That's quite the endorsement, there. Before Bitcoin, they were using stuff like Walmart giftcards.
- fidelramos 6y ago
  > Hence that's probably why 97% of ransomware uses BTC. What payment processor would ransomware use? Credit card processors would close their account. Nobody can close your Bitcoin account. That can be used for crime, but also is a legitimate protection against the abuses of governments and banks.
  - chrischen 6y ago
    That’s why Bitcoin has this legitimate use. No one will service ransomware businesses.
    - fidelramos 6y ago
      And as I said that's a consequence of Bitcoin's decentralization and censorship resistance. I think the positive aspects of those features overshadow the negative.
FireBeyond 6y ago
> but the studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime. That's awkward, given that: * "All the bitcoins in the world [are] worth roughly $160.4 billion" - Investopedia * USD M2 (2018): $16.1T - https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 So really, BTC is used at least as much, relatively speaking, for crime, as USD.
- splintercell 6y ago
  But does it show that bitcoin is the preferred method for crime?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
IncRnd 6y ago
Since criminals don't want their activities to be tracked on a public ledger, how did these studies (plural) get performed with any accuracy?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Not all criminals are masterminds like Satoshi... or should I say... Paul "Solotshi" Calder Le Roux. [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-international-drug-dealer-maybe/ https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-inte...
chrischen 6y ago
I was specifically talking about online criminals (online drugs, hackers, etc).

by toomim 6y ago

microtherion 6y ago

> studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime That's a massively higher share for cryptocurrencies than in legitimate transactions, isn't it?

bb88 6y ago
I was curious about that too. The US Treasury thinks that $300bn is laundered every year. Then ciphertrace thinks $2.5bn is laundered through crypto currencies. While BTC is tracked between wallets and that's easily measured, it's unclear how to measure wallets being transferred between people.

bb88 6y ago

> Cash is anonymous. Bitcoin is not. There's a non zero chance that your criminal extortion scheme won't end up with bill serial numbers tracked by federal authorities. Hence that's probably why 97% of ransomware uses BTC.

mirimir 6y ago
That's quite the endorsement, there. Before Bitcoin, they were using stuff like Walmart giftcards.
fidelramos 6y ago
> Hence that's probably why 97% of ransomware uses BTC. What payment processor would ransomware use? Credit card processors would close their account. Nobody can close your Bitcoin account. That can be used for crime, but also is a legitimate protection against the abuses of governments and banks.
- chrischen 6y ago
  That’s why Bitcoin has this legitimate use. No one will service ransomware businesses.
  - fidelramos 6y ago
    And as I said that's a consequence of Bitcoin's decentralization and censorship resistance. I think the positive aspects of those features overshadow the negative.

FireBeyond 6y ago

> but the studies show that USD is used about 100x more than cryptocurrencies for crime. That's awkward, given that: * "All the bitcoins in the world [are] worth roughly $160.4 billion" - Investopedia * USD M2 (2018): $16.1T - https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 So really, BTC is used at least as much, relatively speaking, for crime, as USD.

splintercell 6y ago
But does it show that bitcoin is the preferred method for crime?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

IncRnd 6y ago

Since criminals don't want their activities to be tracked on a public ledger, how did these studies (plural) get performed with any accuracy?

arcticbull 6y ago
Not all criminals are masterminds like Satoshi... or should I say... Paul "Solotshi" Calder Le Roux. [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-international-drug-dealer-maybe/ https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-inte...

chrischen 6y ago

I was specifically talking about online criminals (online drugs, hackers, etc).