14 ms·

I feel like the hydrogen atom model (the rendering model) is ambiguous, which makes the rotation ambiguous Also, I feel like you have to have a good grasp of s

I feel like the hydrogen atom model (the rendering model) is ambiguous, which makes the rotation ambiguous Also, I feel like you have to have a good grasp of symmetry and rotation to grasp the thought that they rotating in different directions - the top part of the thing, closest to the viewer, is going right for both of them. Why is that counter or clockwise? Thank God I took quantum chemistry and think I know what they're going for.

mickfaraday 6y ago
You have to view each terminal on its own terms: when viewed from above, each rotating atom at the end of each terminal is rotating oppositely (-/+ charge)...this means when you bring them together they coincide.
- trent_lott 6y ago
  Yeah, I understand that they are mirror images of one another and their rotation ends up being complimentary But if someone is at a very introductory level and doesn't know anything about rotational symmetry, the point that the terminal ends are rotating opposite directions may be confusing. The transparency of the render models might lead to someone hearing that point about opposing rotations, stare at those rotating terminal ends, and then have something like the rotating mask illusion (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKa0eaKsdA0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKa0eaKsdA0) cause them to see that the terminal ends are visually rotating in opposite directions, rather than it being just in relative terms. I was able to do this on purpose with the faster-rotating negative terminal, and its rotation is genuinely kind of ambiguous at the scale I watched the video. These aren't criticisms of the method, just a couple of points about the video that might pose some conflict with someone who is at a very introductory level. I do like the idea generally. It's always fun to see new analogies for stuff.
  - mickfaraday 6y ago
    aha i get your point exactly. Yes, i'll see if i can't address those for future vids. Unfortunately youtube doesn't let you update vids so i'll have to include those points in the next vid on magnetism. thank you!
    - trent_lott 6y ago
      If it were me, I'd probably have the camera fly down to between the two terminal ends (don't cut, so the viewer understands what's happening). Then, turn from one terminal and shoe the rotation with an arrow, then rotate and turn to the other and do the same. Maybe mention that they're mirror images, so the rotation coincides. Obviously not a dictate, but if I were trying to explain it to my chemistry freshmen that is how I would do initially. It might be useful to seek out some non-expert boards that help undergrads in physical science or engineering to see what they think! Good luck! I'll bookmark your stuff and ref it to some EE people.
      - mickfaraday 6y ago
        thank you!!! Yes, I'll include a side-by-side when i revisit this for magnetism/solenoid in the next vid.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  I had similar problem. I understood how it should be from the picture but "opposite" made me think there is some phenomena there. I had to look closely to debunk it.

mickfaraday 6y ago

You have to view each terminal on its own terms: when viewed from above, each rotating atom at the end of each terminal is rotating oppositely (-/+ charge)...this means when you bring them together they coincide.

trent_lott 6y ago
Yeah, I understand that they are mirror images of one another and their rotation ends up being complimentary But if someone is at a very introductory level and doesn't know anything about rotational symmetry, the point that the terminal ends are rotating opposite directions may be confusing. The transparency of the render models might lead to someone hearing that point about opposing rotations, stare at those rotating terminal ends, and then have something like the rotating mask illusion (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKa0eaKsdA0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKa0eaKsdA0) cause them to see that the terminal ends are visually rotating in opposite directions, rather than it being just in relative terms. I was able to do this on purpose with the faster-rotating negative terminal, and its rotation is genuinely kind of ambiguous at the scale I watched the video. These aren't criticisms of the method, just a couple of points about the video that might pose some conflict with someone who is at a very introductory level. I do like the idea generally. It's always fun to see new analogies for stuff.
- mickfaraday 6y ago
  aha i get your point exactly. Yes, i'll see if i can't address those for future vids. Unfortunately youtube doesn't let you update vids so i'll have to include those points in the next vid on magnetism. thank you!
  - trent_lott 6y ago
    If it were me, I'd probably have the camera fly down to between the two terminal ends (don't cut, so the viewer understands what's happening). Then, turn from one terminal and shoe the rotation with an arrow, then rotate and turn to the other and do the same. Maybe mention that they're mirror images, so the rotation coincides. Obviously not a dictate, but if I were trying to explain it to my chemistry freshmen that is how I would do initially. It might be useful to seek out some non-expert boards that help undergrads in physical science or engineering to see what they think! Good luck! I'll bookmark your stuff and ref it to some EE people.
    - mickfaraday 6y ago
      thank you!!! Yes, I'll include a side-by-side when i revisit this for magnetism/solenoid in the next vid.
sergeykish 6y ago
I had similar problem. I understood how it should be from the picture but "opposite" made me think there is some phenomena there. I had to look closely to debunk it.